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kaydee

Information on a M1 Carbine Modification during WWII

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I am looking for information on a M1 Carbine that was either Manufactured for the Military or was a WWII or Korean War Field Modification. The M1 Carbine used an Inland M1 Carbine. The rear sight was removed and a M3 Sight Bar was installed with the Front Barrel Band and used the front hand guard for the M3. Then the M82 or M84 Sniper Telescope was used. See Attached image.1393003033_M1_CarbineSniper.jpg.4b45d61f5b78961d1255ef3ef68ba9bc.jpg

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Interesting but wouldn't the military put a sniper scope on a higher powered rifle. I'm trying to think of a situation where an M1 carbine would make more sense.

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Suncance,

I am not sure but I did find this information.

Origin United States

Weapon Type Sniper Rifle

Production and Service Designer Inland Manufacturer Military Contractors

Used by United States Army

Specifications

Weight (2.6 kg) (5.8 lbs)

Length (39 1/4 inches) (996.95 MM)

Barrel Length (46 cm) (18 in)

Caliber (.308 in) (7.8 mm)

Cartridge/Ammunition .30 Carbine

Action Semi-Auto or Auto Select

Feed System 15-round box magazine

Sight System Iron Front / Rear M3 Scope Bar with Barrel Band

Effective Range (180m) (200 yards)

Maximum Range (270 m) (300 yards)

Muzzle Velocity (607 m/s) (1,990 ft/s)

Firing Rate 10–15 rounds/min

I'm just not sure if this M1 Carbine was made during WWII or was it a fireld Modification. The parts should have been availiable to manufacture or modify.

kaydee

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Well that seems to describe an M1 carbine sniper rifle. Where did that information come from?

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In Peter Senich’s book on Sniping, he talks about and provides a picture of the experimental M1E7, “lightweight sniper rifle” of 1943.  This was equipped with a 2.5x weaver.  He states that although it was not selected it led to the later T3 infrared sniper’s carbine.  
The M1E7 development and how it led to the T3/M3 sniper’s carbines are also detailed in Davies’ book US Guns of WW2.

The carbine you described had to come after the M3 if it uses its mount so my best guess would be post WW2 since none of my references mention revisiting the ‘lightweight sniper rifle project’ after early 1944 prior to the M3 carbine (early ‘50s- if it has “T3” parts vs M3, it could be end of WW2 to c1950) As far as if it is a field modification or a further Korea era experiment I’m not sure.   

 

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Thanks for all the information. Sundance. I got the information off of a Web site. Doctorofwar, I thought it had to be Post WWII because of the Infrared parts used. I actually found several that sold on Rock Island Auctions in the past.

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Just wondering kaydee, do you own this? That looks like one perfect stock. M1 carbines are favorites of mine. There are so many different makers, parts suppliers and variations.

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Suncance,

No, I don't own that M1 Carbine. That is an image I got off the Web. I had heard a lot about a M1 Carbine that was modified for the use of a M82 or M84 scope. I had never seen much about it, so I was researching to find more information. Still don't know where the were made and if they were made for military use. Because of the parts used from the M3 Infrared Sniper Scope, I thinks it was either the end of WWII or the Korean War.

I do know that Rock Island Auction did auction some of the off. I could only go back to december 2009 and one sold for $6,325.00 plus the commission fee and shipping. a couple more sold in 2010 and in 2011. 

I thought you might to see my Man"s Wall.IMG_0744.JPG.f84b8fe51aac3bdbc337c962bbdcee5f.JPGIMG_0887.JPG.0df5c7cb1916cebe6eba2f8f17acafb4.JPG

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WOW - very nice. That looks like one tall wall. How about a shot of the wall with the Type 99s on it.

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Ok, These are old images and covers only about half of my collection,

1880206535_KneeMortars.jpg.423ddfe84554338b97a0d387ea86ef21.jpg1130444223_IMG_3071s.JPG.6bc46662a53fb0da15361bb352731a05.JPG280933081_IMG_2249s.jpg.a0bb64f70408f55cd09b492437eeb0b0.jpg2138528330_IMG_3073s.jpg.292808a20bd4646abd6c84e4352823b3.jpg872597652_IMG_0745s.jpg.cdb76091b9b592879879f00c40a1bdef.jpg1689665126_IMG_1688s.jpg.947dc6134023e457e04755b4658917c9.jpg

 

Kaydee

Dwight Brown

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I see you like Japanese rifles also. Another of my favorites. Any particular reason  for your attraction to Japanese rifles?

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great collection of guns - any original WWII garands?


donation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gif

 

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kaydee

 

    Wonderful collection ! Thank you for sharing.

 

Tony

  


donation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif

donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif







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10 hours ago, mdk0911 said:

great collection of guns - any original WWII garands?

Only one is a 1953, the others are all WWII 1942, 1943, 1944 and the M1 C and the M1 D are also WWII.

Dwight

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11 hours ago, sundance said:

I see you like Japanese rifles also. Another of my favorites. Any particular reason  for your attraction to Japanese rifles?

I spent four years in South Korea 1974 through 1977 and my wife of 45 years is Korean. Because of this time I became interested in the Korean War. That is when I learned the Chinese and Russians gave the spoils of WWII to North Korean. The North Koreans used those Weapons to attack South Korea. That is how my collection got started.

Dwight

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On 6/9/2020 at 5:51 PM, Doctorofwar said:

In Peter Senich’s book on Sniping, he talks about and provides a picture of the experimental M1E7, “lightweight sniper rifle” of 1943.  This was equipped with a 2.5x weaver.  He states that although it was not selected it led to the later T3 infrared sniper’s carbine.  
The M1E7 development and how it led to the T3/M3 sniper’s carbines are also detailed in Davies’ book US Guns of WW2.
 

 

 

I took these photos of a fellow member's M1E7 display at a meeting of the American Society of Arms Collectors last year in Springfield, MO.  Perhaps this will provide the information sought by the original poster.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

 

IMG_5192.jpg

IMG_5191.jpg

IMG_5189 2.jpg

IMG_5190 2.jpg


NRA Life Member
Past President, The American Thompson Association
American Society of Arms Collectors
Ohio Gun Collectors Association
Carbine Club
Garand Collectors Association

International Ammunition Association
Contributing Writer, Small Arms Review Magazine
Co-Author, "Thompson Manuals, Catalogs, & Other Paper Items" Collector Guide
One of the "Other Authors" of "The Ultimate Thompson Book," by Tracie L. Hill
Eagle Scout, and Member of NESA

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On 6/9/2020 at 12:14 PM, kaydee said:

I am looking for information on a M1 Carbine that was either Manufactured for the Military or was a WWII or Korean War Field Modification. The M1 Carbine used an Inland M1 Carbine. The rear sight was removed and a M3 Sight Bar was installed with the Front Barrel Band and used the front hand guard for the M3. Then the M82 or M84 Sniper Telescope was used. See Attached image.1393003033_M1_CarbineSniper.jpg.4b45d61f5b78961d1255ef3ef68ba9bc.jpg

Can anyone tell me what type of Scope rings were used to attach the 7/8 inch scope to the M3 infrared Scope mount.

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I believe they are the same vertically split rings that would have been used on the M1903A4 Springfield. 

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1 hour ago, M1Garandy said:

I believe they are the same vertically split rings that would have been used on the M1903A4 Springfield. 

Look at my second image of the M1C and the M1D, then look at my first image of my 1903A4. You will see the scopes are totally different. There is no way that that you would be able to slide the Type 82 and the Type 84 scope through the vertical split rings. The rings for the type 82 and the Type 84 scope have to be Horizontal split.

kaydee

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If you remove the eyepiece from an M81/M82/Alaskan, I believe the rear ring will then slide on.

 

I believe the M84 will need horizontally split rings to work in this application. 

 

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1 hour ago, M1Garandy said:

If you remove the eyepiece from an M81/M82/Alaskan, I believe the rear ring will then slide on.

 

I believe the M84 will need horizontally split rings to work in this application. 

 

 

M1 Garandy,

These are images of the M84 Scope with the eye piece removed. Do you still think the rings will slide on. The rings need to be a Horizontal split the secure the scope to the M3 Infrared Scope mounting bar.

This is an image of what the rings need to be.

Kaydee

Dwight Brown

kaydees@embarqmail.com

352-205-8536

323338855_IMG_3588s.jpg.6059c435468ff464faa81d62879543e6.jpg1982071891_IMG_3589s.JPG.a2871f8bab6c7530baa3290034e19630.JPG848020088_IMG_3590s.JPG.1ec443f1d7111c7833c6ba7f22ca7cc2.JPG38771928_Scoperingss.jpg.487b3decd2bd42e16771228214559257.jpg

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When I refer to the "eyepiece" of an M81/M82/Alaskan, I mean the ocular end of the scope with the lens and locking ring, not the rubber eye cup.

 

For an M84, I stated that I believe horizontally split rings were required so I do not believe we disagree about that.

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38 minutes ago, M1Garandy said:

When I refer to the "eyepiece" of an M81/M82/Alaskan, I mean the ocular end of the scope with the lens and locking ring, not the rubber eye cup.

 

For an M84, I stated that I believe horizontally split rings were required so I do not believe we disagree about that.

 

M1Garandy,

You were talking about a different scope an Alaskan M81 or a M82 scope. I don't believe these were available during late WWII or the Korean War. Tke scope I have for my M1 Carbine has a M94 Telescope. The same type used on the M1D. My Carbine is complete except for the scope rings that are 7/8 inches and mount on the M3 Infrared Night Vision Scope.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought we were talking about the same scope. I had to reread your prior post.

Dwight

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Mr.Garandy,

I found my solution. I have posted images of the final M1 Carbine with a M84 scope on a M3 mounting bar.

1739757169_IMG_35912.JPG.7d8cf046d14626b184f4d9d634c3c304.JPG1370016377_IMG_3592s.JPG.17c3b1f80434448b7c8ff68bd335df14.JPG1370016377_IMG_3592s.JPG.17c3b1f80434448b7c8ff68bd335df14.JPG648716512_IMG_3594s.JPG.e2e4dff61c8485791f1d2562adaaf432.JPG648716512_IMG_3594s.JPG.e2e4dff61c8485791f1d2562adaaf432.JPG1982407828_IMG_3595s.JPG.fdcd9af66ca0d3bad60e3f5f66e3e9a6.JPG1982407828_IMG_3595s.JPG.fdcd9af66ca0d3bad60e3f5f66e3e9a6.JPG

 

Kaydees

Dwight Brown

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