tsellati Posted January 14, 2009 Share #1 Posted January 14, 2009 I have a "thing" for 1943 (I have both an original non-import, non-refurbished Inland M1 carbine and Remington M1903A3 manufactured this year), so when this fighting knife came along with its blade dated 1943 I just could not resist . It is certainly not the most pristine example I have seen (though I did pay a pretty penny for it), but, I tend to prefer my firearms and militaria to have that "been there and done that" look which reflects their provenance. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Robinson Posted January 17, 2009 Share #2 Posted January 17, 2009 Very nice...a blue bladed CASE dated M3. It's not a bad example but you really need to replace that M8A1 scabbard...preferable with a leather M6 or at the very least with an M8. A proper scabbard would nearly double the value of the set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay.223 Posted January 17, 2009 Share #3 Posted January 17, 2009 very nice. Yeah an M3 with an M6 will definately increase the value from what i've seen...I've been seeing M6 scabbards alone, going for around 300$-700$ ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsellati Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted January 17, 2009 Very nice...a blue bladed CASE dated M3. It's not a bad example but you really need to replace that M8A1 scabbard...preferable with a leather M6 or at the very least with an M8. A proper scabbard would nearly double the value of the set. Greg, I am glad you chimed in hear as I am new to knife collecting and had a question about this scabbard and knife collecting in general. This scabbard is in fact an M8 and not an M8A1; so, am I correct in understanding it would be correct for this knife? My second question relates to collecting philosophy. Before I discovered the M8 scabbard is correct for this knife my first inclination was to pick up a nice M6 scabbard. Question is, if I paired an M6 scabbard with this knife it would not be "correct" with respect to this knife's provenance. Would it not be bad to separate a knife from the scabbard with which it came? I could see pairing any correct scabbard with a knife that did not come with one, but, to purposefully mix and match seems to go against a basic tenet of collecting that I have followed with regard to rifles and handguns with WWII provenance. What is the general thinking among knife collectors? Thanks for the education. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Robinson Posted January 17, 2009 Share #5 Posted January 17, 2009 Greg, I am glad you chimed in hear as I am new to knife collecting and had a question about this scabbard and knife collecting in general. This scabbard is in fact an M8 and not an M8A1; so, am I correct in understanding it would be correct for this knife? My second question relates to collecting philosophy. Before I discovered the M8 scabbard is correct for this knife my first inclination was to pick up a nice M6 scabbard. Question is, if I paired an M6 scabbard with this knife it would not be "correct" with respect to this knife's provenance. Would it not be bad to separate a knife from the scabbard with which it came? I could see pairing any correct scabbard with a knife that did not come with one, but, to purposefully mix and match seems to go against a basic tenet of collecting that I have followed with regard to rifles and handguns with WWII provenance. What is the general thinking among knife collectors? Thanks for the education. Tim Tim That scabbard is an M8A1 and not an M8. It was just a case of an early production M8A1 assembled using leftover "M8" stamped metal throats. It's the presence of cartridge belt hooks and not the markings which define which model scabbard it is. I normally agree that it's best to leave scabbard/knife sets as found and not put them together. But in your case there's no way that 1944-1945 production scabbard is original to a 1943 production knife. Good chance the match up was done by a former collector long after WW2. So not only is there no harm in changing this but it will actually increase the set's collectibility since we collectors do tend to be anal re things being "correct". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Trzaska Posted January 18, 2009 Share #6 Posted January 18, 2009 Early blade but later M4 type cut grooves in the handle. All the best Frank Trzaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay.223 Posted January 18, 2009 Share #7 Posted January 18, 2009 So, did all manufacturers date the blade at one point or another? Also I was under the impression that blade marked M3s in general were early ('43-'44) and the hilt marked were late '44...is this correct? Were M3s produced and issued pre '43? thanks for clarification... Brad i'll post pics of my New M3 Camillus blade marked soon.....the factory handle is somewhat interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Robinson Posted January 18, 2009 Share #8 Posted January 18, 2009 So, did all manufacturers date the blade at one point or another?Also I was under the impression that blade marked M3s in general were early ('43-'44) and the hilt marked were late '44...is this correct? Were M3s produced and issued pre '43? thanks for clarification... Brad i'll post pics of my New M3 Camillus blade marked soon.....the factory handle is somewhat interesting... The blade dated M3 was only made for a few months in 1943 and not all makers had contracts that early. So at least one of them never made a blade dated knife. I think it was BOKER. And at least one never made a guard marked knife and that was ROBESON. Guard marked knives were made in the first half of 1944 before being replaced by the M4. No M3's were made prior to 1943. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsellati Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted January 18, 2009 Tim That scabbard is an M8A1 and not an M8. It was just a case of an early production M8A1 assembled using leftover "M8" stamped metal throats. It's the presence of cartridge belt hooks and not the markings which define which model scabbard it is. I normally agree that it's best to leave scabbard/knife sets as found and not put them together. But in your case there's no way that 1944-1945 production scabbard is original to a 1943 production knife. Good chance the match up was done by a former collector long after WW2. So not only is there no harm in changing this but it will actually increase the set's collectibility since we collectors do tend to be anal re things being "correct". I guess I'll have to start saving up for an M6 scabbard then. I have seen them go for crazy high prices though ! Since my M3 is no safe-queen perhaps I'll keep an eye out for a well-used (and hopefully more reasonably priced) M6. Tim P.S. - Thanks for the clarification on what distinguishes an M8A1 from the earlier M8 scabbards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsellati Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted January 18, 2009 Early blade but later M4 type cut grooves in the handle. All the best Frank Trzaska Frank, Thank you for this interesting piece of information. So, thinking about this M3 whose handle has M4-type cut grooves in the context of Greg's comment - The blade dated M3 was only made for a few months in 1943 and not all makers had contracts that early. Guard marked knives were made in the first half of 1944 before being replaced by the M4. No M3's were made prior to 1943., perhaps this knife's blade was made in 1943, but was not assembled until very late that year or perhaps in early 1944. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Robinson Posted January 18, 2009 Share #11 Posted January 18, 2009 Frank, Thank you for this interesting piece of information. So, thinking about this M3 whose handle has M4-type cut grooves in the context of Greg's comment - The blade dated M3 was only made for a few months in 1943 and not all makers had contracts that early. Guard marked knives were made in the first half of 1944 before being replaced by the M4. No M3's were made prior to 1943., perhaps this knife's blade was made in 1943, but was not assembled until very late that year or perhaps in early 1944. Tim If you would like to post a pic of the pommel maybe somebody could try to determine if your knife has ever been disassembled and new handle installed. You need to rule out the possibility that the knife has been rebuilt by somebody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Robinson Posted January 18, 2009 Share #12 Posted January 18, 2009 very nice. Yeah an M3 with an M6 will definately increase the value from what i've seen...I've been seeing M6 scabbards alone, going for around 300$-700$ ?! Amazing how those have escalated in price. Last time I went shopping for an on the loose M6 was about 11-12 years ago, I remember Wartime Collectables had mailed a new for sale list containing several M6's ranging in price from 100-$150+ and they were all very good condition or better condition. One note of caution.....be wary of fakes when shopping for those on ebay. Fakes.....and the prices...are what drove me away from M3 collecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay.223 Posted January 18, 2009 Share #13 Posted January 18, 2009 Amazing how those have escalated in price. Last time I went shopping for an on the loose M6 was about 11-12 years ago, I remember Wartime Collectables had mailed a new for sale list containing several M6's ranging in price from 100-$150+ and they were all very good condition or better condition. One note of caution.....be wary of fakes when shopping for those on ebay. Fakes.....and the prices...are what drove me away from M3 collecting. Yeah it is amazing...I was listening to my grandfather talk about going through big crates at surplus stores as a kid and buying WWI haversacks for 2$ and 1918 canteens with variations of covers for $3...He said back in the 50s 'you would see them trench knives going for about $5 a knife and you could pick out your scabbard' WOW!! if only I could go back in time Your right, I have seen some very peciliar knives and scabbard go on ebay for a decent amount! I recently was watching an M3 in Thailand on ebay that had 5 grooves ?! and a very thin pommel (with an ordanance mark) went for about $120 your right there are alot of fakes on ebay and around.... ~Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal30M1 Posted January 18, 2009 Share #14 Posted January 18, 2009 Nice Weapon! I like it! It looks to me like it has had the last few washers replaced. The ones close to to pommel look lighter. Do you have a pic if the pommel? That will tell the tale on the washers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsellati Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted January 19, 2009 Here are some pictures of the M3 knife's pommel - This shot was taken with a flash and it is a little easier to see the "flaming bomb" mark - Here are some pictures of the pommels of other knives in my small-but-growing collection - 1. USMC KA-Bar that came with a USMC BOYT -43- marked leather scabbard - 2. USN Mark 2 that came with a USN BOYT -43- marked leather scabbard - 3. Cattaraugus 225Q that came with an unmarked leather scabbard - So, whatever you can tell me about the knives and whether they are original or have undergone some sort of rebuild is much appreciated. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Trzaska Posted January 20, 2009 Share #16 Posted January 20, 2009 In my opinion your M3 appears to have been rebuilt at some point. The grip is consistent with an M4 bayonet style of cut in grooves. The pommel is possibly from an Imperial with the large Ordnance bomb marking. Case used a very small bomb on their blade dated M3 knives. It looks as though parts from several items were used to put it together. All the best Frank Trzaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsellati Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted January 20, 2009 Nice Weapon! I like it! It looks to me like it has had the last few washers replaced. The ones close to to pommel look lighter. Do you have a pic if the pommel? That will tell the tale on the washers. The washers closer to the pommel appearing lighter is just a photographic effect. To the naked eye under natural light conditions there does not appear to be any difference in color. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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