dmar836 Posted June 19, 2020 Share #26 Posted June 19, 2020 Another example of wishful thinking leading to poor decisions. Perhaps he really wanted that Hawley. From Proverbs "A fool and his money are soon departed" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted June 19, 2020 Share #27 Posted June 19, 2020 Hey what is the story behind that bullet drilled M1 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share #28 Posted June 19, 2020 48 minutes ago, dmar836 said: Another example of wishful thinking leading to poor decisions. Perhaps he really wanted that Hawley. From Proverbs "A fool and his money are soon departed" Couldn’t agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share #29 Posted June 19, 2020 21 minutes ago, rooster77 said: Hey what is the story behind that bullet drilled M1 ? hey Dave Armoured division helmet , I’ll post up some pics a little later 🙂 bullet traveled between the helmet and the liner. one lucky SOA gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted June 19, 2020 Share #30 Posted June 19, 2020 Wow Dean !!! Thats awesome ! And always good to hear the person survived it ! Man!!! Lucky is right !. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmar836 Posted June 19, 2020 Share #31 Posted June 19, 2020 Yeah, I'm sure it's been on before but also wondering about the camo on that one. Story? Sorry to go off topic, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share #32 Posted June 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, dmar836 said: Yeah, I'm sure it's been on before but also wondering about the camo on that one. Story? Sorry to go off topic, Dave That’s ok Dave I started the original topic the helmet below is a 6th Armored division set , named but I can’t read it on the sweatband. Initials are R.S scratches inside. Pacific camo or Italian camo could be either as both would work colour wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmar836 Posted June 19, 2020 Share #33 Posted June 19, 2020 Wow. Thanks. That's crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share #34 Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, dmar836 said: Wow. Thanks. That's crazy. Anytime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share #35 Posted June 19, 2020 5 hours ago, rooster77 said: Wow Dean !!! Thats awesome ! And always good to hear the person survived it ! Man!!! Lucky is right !. thanks Dave hope your well my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted June 19, 2020 Share #36 Posted June 19, 2020 Thank you Dean. Hanging in there. Hey, that helmet (Pardon the pun) Blows me away !!! I bet the guys in his unit talked about that one for awhile. !!! Man !!!! Thanks for showing it Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted June 19, 2020 Share #37 Posted June 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Jim McCauley said: I agree with most of the assessments made. My only hesitation is that we are basing our opinions on pictures. I've found a hands on inspection can sometimes change ones mind. (That actually works both ways.) Ditto, Jim ( and Mike W). The majority of photos that ones tries to interpret on this helmet forum are generally a waste of time and simply cannot establish fact with any degree any certainty. Having it hand obviously is an essential step in that process, often precluded by distance and money. It simply is not available for examination. Like Mike, I would have liked to have seen it in hand before rendering a decision, if possible, because it is an important part of my collecting/procuring process. Over the years, there have been many helmets reviewed on this very forum, discounted as fakes, that in reality are great original examples. So, the opinions on this forum, and they are just opinions, if only based on suboptimal photographs and no other pertinent information, should be considered carefully and cautiously by collectors. And to you fathers, enjoy the weekend,😃 pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share #38 Posted June 19, 2020 1 minute ago, jpstout said: Ditto, Jim ( and Mike W). The majority of photos that ones tries to interpret on this helmet forum are generally a waste of time and simply cannot establish fact with any degree any certainty. Having it hand obviously is an essential step in that process, often precluded by distance and money. It simply is not available for examination. Like Mike, I would have liked to have seen it in hand before rendering a decision, if possible, because it is an important part of my collecting/procuring process. Over the years, there have been many helmets reviewed on this very forum, discounted as fakes, that in reality are great original examples. So, the opinions on this forum, and they are just opinions, if only based on suboptimal photographs and no other pertinent information, should be considered carefully and cautiously by collectors. And to you fathers, enjoy the weekend,😃 pat having it In hand would be great, but for collectors all you have sometimes is pictures. Did anyone buy this spectacular piece On this forum of US collectors ? Because I’m sure many would want this very rare painted camouflage helmet If not that speaks volumes, enough to warrant enough doubts from the photos. already enjoying the weekend, have a great one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted June 19, 2020 Share #39 Posted June 19, 2020 I did notice that the helmet has decent aging... (Dust) Patina for helmets if you will... all around the bottom on the outside... Except that it stops where ever the bright green paint is. You can see it under the bright green near the edge where it wasnt put on as thick. But no dust (aging) etc across the Bright green paint which to my eyes means its recent. The aging should continue across the bright green paint. The pics are still up. Check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted June 19, 2020 Share #40 Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, jpstout said: Ditto, Jim ( and Mike W). The majority of photos that ones tries to interpret on this helmet forum are generally a waste of time and simply cannot establish fact with any degree any certainty. Having it hand obviously is an essential step in that process, often precluded by distance and money. It simply is not available for examination. Like Mike, I would have liked to have seen it in hand before rendering a decision, if possible, because it is an important part of my collecting/procuring process. Over the years, there have been many helmets reviewed on this very forum, discounted as fakes, that in reality are great original examples. So, the opinions on this forum, and they are just opinions, if only based on suboptimal photographs and no other pertinent information, should be considered carefully and cautiously by collectors. And to you fathers, enjoy the weekend,😃 pat Exactly right. I would point out that the opposite is also true. There have been outright fakes posted on here that were celebrated as fantastic originals. I would really want to look at the helmet in question before dismissing it entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted June 19, 2020 Share #41 Posted June 19, 2020 The "aging" near the edge looks like the paint was applied thinner there and the dirt is showing there because it wasnt painted over with the bright green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntssurplus Posted June 19, 2020 Share #42 Posted June 19, 2020 Looking at the rim though you can see there is basically no stainless steel showing. Looking at the picture of the underside again very little visible stainless steel. One would think if this was a field used helmet, there would be some stainless steel showing. Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted June 20, 2020 Share #43 Posted June 20, 2020 I will throw this one in, from the Robbins AFM Air Museum I visited a day ago. They had a nice Normandy display area. I am not a helmet guy, but found it interestingly ill camouflaged. I posted this in another thread and thought it would have some interest here. I love to read comments on pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmar836 Posted June 20, 2020 Share #44 Posted June 20, 2020 Guys, the most knowledgeable guys on this forum fell for some of the fakes just a few years ago. You can look at it all you want, in hand or not but, without solid provenance, one cannot prove authenticity. To say one cannot prove it’s fake either is then expecting others to prove a negative - cannot be done. Proof positive is the standard. If one looks at it and determines it is authentic then, fine, it is real to them only and those they can convince. IMO, even if authentic, we can’t ever really know as there is nothing but hope and assumption as evidence. If that means a forever limited supply of unique M-1s that are documented and therefore outrageously priced then... yep... that’s supply and demand. Unfortunately, these lid’s values are then limited to that of any basic M-1 of unknown origin, IMO, or what others can be convinced to assume. That’s just IMO and I wouldn’t pay just for my hope it was real. Others will and that keeps it all going. It’s true that many real lids are deemed as fakes but that’s one of the selfish shames of counterfeiting - it harms much more than just the buyer. Rant over Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted June 20, 2020 Share #45 Posted June 20, 2020 it could be a extra helmet that was painted but never saw action, a few stayed behind and never got used, except for the trip home in the soldier's duffle bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntssurplus Posted June 20, 2020 Share #46 Posted June 20, 2020 3 hours ago, dmar836 said: Guys, the most knowledgeable guys on this forum fell for some of the fakes just a few years ago. You can look at it all you want, in hand or not but, without solid provenance, one cannot prove authenticity. To say one cannot prove it’s fake either is then expecting others to prove a negative - cannot be done. Proof positive is the standard. If one looks at it and determines it is authentic then, fine, it is real to them only and those they can convince. IMO, even if authentic, we can’t ever really know as there is nothing but hope and assumption as evidence. If that means a forever limited supply of unique M-1s that are documented and therefore outrageously priced then... yep... that’s supply and demand. Unfortunately, these lid’s values are then limited to that of any basic M-1 of unknown origin, IMO, or what others can be convinced to assume. That’s just IMO and I wouldn’t pay just for my hope it was real. Others will and that keeps it all going. It’s true that many real lids are deemed as fakes but that’s one of the selfish shames of counterfeiting - it harms much more than just the buyer. Rant over Dave Dave, I agree with this somewhat. When a helmet comes up to the chopping block here on the forum, it is judged almost every time as fake until proven real. There are too many fakes, and too many notable that fakers that passed off many helmets with the rest of us following along without looking into it any further. If you were on the forum a few years ago you would recognize the whole Jkash fiasco, and I think that along with a lot of other notable fakers has cast even more doubt into the painted helmet scene. Especially the painted airborne helmets. Like you said, without soldi provenance, we can never know for sure if the paint on the helmet is 100% original or not. But if a helmet ends up becoming widely accepted by the collecting community to be real, then, well, does the provenance really matter? i'm honestly against the whole "real to you" argument too. If I buy a helmet that was painted yesterday in someones garage, but I come to the forum and say "this one came right out of the woodwork, the guy obviously didn't know about helmets, blah blah blah" and there are opinions against the helmet then it diminishes the value of the helmet. Sure, I can display it all I want, show it to my non collector friends, whatever but as soon as I go and try to sell it, if i put it up and say "100% real" well now I'm being dishonest. Even if that is my opinion, if someone else buys it and posts it on the forum and it is determined to be fake, then I just ripped that person off, and they would most likely, justifiably, want their money back. That's why I think it is important to judge the helmets here on the forum. Even if 10 real helmets are deemed fake, I think it's better than 1 fake being deemed real. People will always accept a helmet once though to be fake as real if it is redetermined real, but it's a lot harder to convince someone the 10k they just spent on a helmet is a waste. That last figure might be much more highly debatable, but it's a similar argument to the 10 criminals allowed free rather than once innocent man jailed for a crime he did not commit. That's just my opinion though. If we lower our standards of what passes the fake-o-meter then it takes the entire credibility of not just our collections, but of our opinions on determining what is real and what isn't. Also a quick note here, I may have misunderstood your post a bit, and we might agree on more points then I first thought when I first started writing this, so if we do share the same opinion Dave, feel free to correct me! Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmar836 Posted June 20, 2020 Share #47 Posted June 20, 2020 No. I usually come off more crass than I intend. Of course one must subjectively judge each helmet individually. The “ real to you” comment is that one must have faith that what they are buying is real or we wouldn’t buy it. The next guy may or may not agree without something more objective. I am assuming we are all considering authentic examples and not knowingly passing fake helmets. I have become so conservative on this as we see museums, well-respected authors, and generally many smarter then me become quiet with the doubts but loud with the possibilities. I’m beginning to think it’s just me so sorry for being so forward with it. But yes, when one might attempt to sell a dolled up M-1for $5k or more, even with good and honest intentions, when a similar but stock M-1 might bring $200, it most certainly demands proof... to me. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmar836 Posted June 20, 2020 Share #48 Posted June 20, 2020 Hunt, I should also point out there is a distinct difference between yelling “fake” and saying, “need more proof to confirm”. IMO that grey area in between is called risk. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share #49 Posted June 20, 2020 14 hours ago, rooster77 said: I did notice that the helmet has decent aging... (Dust) Patina for helmets if you will... all around the bottom on the outside... Except that it stops where ever the bright green paint is. You can see it under the bright green near the edge where it wasnt put on as thick. But no dust (aging) etc across the Bright green paint which to my eyes means its recent. The aging should continue across the bright green paint. The pics are still up. Check it out. fantastic Spot Dave ! On the right side front of rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share #50 Posted June 20, 2020 I’m assuming you mean this Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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