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This helmet is from a man who served with the 8th recon in Germany. What could the blue and white stripes mean on his helmet? They have been there for awhile. I have talked to a mp collector and he said that its not mp. Im confused at this point

20200606_171513.jpg

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Could be cadre for a school, like an NCO Academy. But I don’t really know. Just a guess. 

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8 hours ago, Namcollector said:

Could you tell me a little more about what the instructors would do?

In a TO&E unit like the 8th Infantry Division (Same holds true for Basic and AIT organizations and the posts there located at), these guys, normally NCO and any Officer who might draw this type duty, the Officer in Charge or as they're commonly know as, OIC, run the Ranges, Ranges not just for firing weapons but for all kinds of Hands On Training "Out in the Field", they generally wear these colorful liners, which can be like yours with colored bands with other decals other than Rank, or Solid colored, with or without Rank and or Unit Decals to distinguish themselves as the ones in charge, and say on weapons ranges for easy identification when commands are given.

 

Special colored liners were also used by an array of other organizations, Two great examples of several of this will be the various Branch OCS Courses, where both Cadre and Students wear them, here they just wear different colors etc, and say various NCO Academies Army Wide.

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11 hours ago, Matt-M said:

Another possibility is 8th Division post war Germany Constabulatory / MP liner


The 8th Infantry shells and liners I've run across bear the unit's insignia. Same holds true for 3rd Infantry Division. I'm retracting my assumption that it is a 3rd Infantry Division liner as the blue is not correct for that unit.

8th Infantry Liner (1).png

8th-infantry-division helmet (1).jpg

8th-infantry-division helmet (2).jpg

3rd division liner.jpg

3rd division helmet.jpg

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13 hours ago, Matt-M said:

Another possibility is 8th Division post war Germany Constabulatory / MP liner

Well the Golden Arrow Division was out of the ETO quite early after VE-Day, it leaves Germany for Virginia in early July, arrives at Hampton Roads on July 10 1945. Coupled with the fact that member says the guy who wore it was a 2 year draftee from 1958-1960, then RE-UPs years later, ultimately serving another 5 yeas, 1964-1969.

 

The issue is the unit. At the time this guy enters the Army in 1958, the Army is reorganizing all it's combat division under the Combat Arms Regimental System or CARS, and the PENTOMIC structure, the WWII period Divisional Reconnaissance unit, the Reconnaissance Troop (Mechanized) is re titled in the late 1940s as Reconnaissance Companies, IE 8th Reconnaissance Troop (Mecz) to simply the 8th Reconnaissance Company, in around 1957-58, the new concept calls for an entire Cavalry Squadron to be assigned permanently to the Infantry Division, the 8th Infantry Division receives the 3rd Reconnaissance Squadron 8th Cavalry. If he was in the 8th Inf Div during his first time in the Army, and was a Recon GI, say an 11D Armored Reconnaissance Specialist, this would be the unit he was in, the 3rd Reconnaissance Squadron 8th Cavalry, not the 8th Reconnaissance Company (8th Recon) that unit was disestablished like them all in all the Infantry Divisions in 57-58.

 

But seeing this guy was a Staff Sergeant E-6 (Army Grades restructured in 1958 to included once again the Grade of Staff Sergeant,,Grade Structure, changed was in 1948 eliminating the Grade of Staff Sergeant, but that's another long story LOL), and barring that this guy made E-6 in his 2 Year Draft Obligation, this might be his liner in the 64-69 period, and this was when he was in the 8th Infantry Division in West Germany, the 3rd Squadron 8th Cavalry (Simply Dropping the Reconnaissance in it's title in 1963) was still a component of the 8th Infantry Division then, and the "8th Recon" just a colloquial way the guy said his unit etc.

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The closest match I've found is this 327th Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division liner. The blue color is a match, the blue over white pattern and the white stripe being double the size of rhe blue stripe is a match, the location of rank at the front is a match.

327th liner (1).jpg

327th liner (2).jpg

327th liner (3).jpg

327th liner (4).jpg

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3 hours ago, Gary Ziegler said:

The closest match I've found is this 327th Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division liner. The blue color is a match, the blue over white pattern and the white stripe being double the size of rhe blue stripe is a match, the location of rank at the front is a match.

327th liner (1).jpg

327th liner (2).jpg

327th liner (3).jpg

327th liner (4).jpg

Nice liner, and a good comparison with the stripes, but this particular 101 liner,, Screaming Eagles decal with no AIRBORNE tab, will date from the early 50s till around  March or so in1956 when the 101 was a training division, we can guess this color stripe combination was used with various units for several years in the 50s well into the 60s, just what it signified, this and other colors, solid or dual stripes???

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2 hours ago, patches said:

Nice liner, and a good comparison with the stripes, but this particular 101 liner,, Screaming Eagles decal with no AIRBORNE tab, will date from the early 50s till around  March or so in1956 when the 101 was a training division, we can guess this color stripe combination was used with various units for several years in the 50s well into the 60s, just what it signified, this and other colors, solid or dual stripes???

 

It is possible that the blue and white stripe, along with the rank insignia, are original to the liner and the 101 decals could have been added later. Here is a side by side comparison of the 2 liners. Remove the 101 decals and the stripes are a spot on match.

327th liner (0).jpg

327th liner (1).jpg

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Interesting, I have a liner for a lieutenant in the 327th that does not have the blue stripe. Unfortunately, I do not have it with me at the moment and the only photo I have saved of it is the 101st decal but the white stripe seems very similar just missing the blue strip.  Also missing the lacquer covering the decal that yours has which means the decal took a beating. This might mean that the blue stripe signified some sort of role or signifies Enlisted infantry since a one member of the unit has it and another does not during roughly the same time frame. 

101st helm.png

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7 hours ago, Ray42 said:

Interesting, I have a liner for a lieutenant in the 327th that does not have the blue stripe. Unfortunately, I do not have it with me at the moment and the only photo I have saved of it is the 101st decal but the white stripe seems very similar just missing the blue strip.  Also missing the lacquer covering the decal that yours has which means the decal took a beating. This might mean that the blue stripe signified some sort of role or signifies Enlisted infantry since a one member of the unit has it and another does not during roughly the same time frame. 

101st helm.png

Here's one for a Sergeant, Single White Band

 

.https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/197188-101st-airborne-training-division-516th-327th-he

 

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8 hours ago, usmc grunt said:

It is possible that the blue and white stripe, along with the rank insignia, are original to the liner and the 101 decals could have been added later. Here is a side by side comparison of the 2 liners. Remove the 101 decals and the stripes are a spot on match.

327th liner (0).jpg

327th liner (1).jpg

My felling would be no, for the moment we are going on what OP Member stated, that Liner was worn by a GI in the "8th Recon" in either 1958-60 or 1964-69, by both date groupings the 101 as a Training Division were over with, by 1964 nearly 10 years.

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If this is in Germany, that would make the helmet as being used by judges / referees in field maneuvers.  The standard German / Bundeswehr use is a white armband or band on the hat or helmet and I'd think the US Army would adopt it for joint maneuvers etc.

 

At least, that's what I suspect is the reason for them.

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I have completed a diligent search to locate information on "Distinguishing markings for M-1 helmet liners" and "striped / striping the M-1 helmet liner" and the only information I found was for the marking of the MP helmet and liner. With all of the books that have been written on the M-1 helmet, I would think that someone would have found some information on the striping of helmet liners.
 

MP markings.jpg

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Woah! This blew up lol. The veteran wrote his name,his ra number, and "8th recon" inside. That airborne liner is very interesting. Everything is definetly original. If you want I can tell you the vets name. He rest in Ohio. Passed in 97 if I can remember. Thanks for the help every one. 

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On 6/17/2020 at 9:25 AM, patches said:

Well the Golden Arrow Division was out of the ETO quite early after VE-Day, it leaves Germany for Virginia in early July, arrives at Hampton Roads on July 10 1945. Coupled with the fact that member says the guy who wore it was a 2 year draftee from 1958-1960, then RE-UPs years later, ultimately serving another 5 yeas, 1964-1969.

 

The issue is the unit. At the time this guy enters the Army in 1958, the Army is reorganizing all it's combat division under the Combat Arms Regimental System or CARS, and the PENTOMIC structure, the WWII period Divisional Reconnaissance unit, the Reconnaissance Troop (Mechanized) is re titled in the late 1940s as Reconnaissance Companies, IE 8th Reconnaissance Troop (Mecz) to simply the 8th Reconnaissance Company, in around 1957-58, the new concept calls for an entire Cavalry Squadron to be assigned permanently to the Infantry Division, the 8th Infantry Division receives the 3rd Reconnaissance Squadron 8th Cavalry. If he was in the 8th Inf Div during his first time in the Army, and was a Recon GI, say an 11D Armored Reconnaissance Specialist, this would be the unit he was in, the 3rd Reconnaissance Squadron 8th Cavalry, not the 8th Reconnaissance Company (8th Recon) that unit was disestablished like them all in all the Infantry Divisions in 57-58.

 

But seeing this guy was a Staff Sergeant E-6 (Army Grades restructured in 1958 to included once again the Grade of Staff Sergeant,,Grade Structure, changed was in 1948 eliminating the Grade of Staff Sergeant, but that's another long story LOL), and barring that this guy made E-6 in his 2 Year Draft Obligation, this might be his liner in the 64-69 period, and this was when he was in the 8th Infantry Division in West Germany, the 3rd Squadron 8th Cavalry (Simply Dropping the Reconnaissance in it's title in 1963) was still a component of the 8th Infantry Division then, and the "8th Recon" just a colloquial way the guy said his unit etc.

You my good sir. Are a absolute genius. I cant thank you enough

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The similarities are there with the Blue and White Band for your liner and the 101 Liner.

 

Funny thing is the the 101 Training Div replaced the 8th Training Div in 1954 at ft Jackson, the 8th Infantry Division was a training division there, in 54 it was transferred to Ft Carson to be upgraded as a combat division again, the 101, which  was inactivated at Cp Breckenridge is reactivated once again at Jackson, still as a training division. Could it be a liner from when the 8th Inf Div was still a Training Division at Jackson and it remained in the supply system of the division for years, with similar ones remaining at Jackson and inherited by the 101????

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4 hours ago, Namcollector said:

You my good sir. Are a absolute genius. I cant thank you enough

Glad I can try a sort it out, these can be hard to figure out, even then even we may be off, the date of your man's entry into the Army, that's what were going off of and the unit too.

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Lets start digging a little deeper into this here. This is the image of your liner you posted in the 8th RECON Armored Triangle Patch topic.

 

Question, does it say S/Sgt or just Sgt? Also that Serial Number RA means he was an Enlistee, a Draftee has the Serial Number Prefix US

 

And would this be the OBIT you found on him?

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/143623430/matthew-e-kinlaw

 

image.png.17e2ff98362cd3b5242e45bace6e92e7.png

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27 minutes ago, patches said:

Lets start digging a little deeper into this here. This is the image of your liner you posted in the 8th RECON Armored Triangle Patch topic.

 

Question, does it say S/Sgt or just Sgt? Also that Serial Number RA means he was an Enlistee, a Draftee has the Serial Number Prefix US

 

And would this be the OBIT you found on him?

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/143623430/matthew-e-kinlaw

 

image.png.17e2ff98362cd3b5242e45bace6e92e7.png

It just says sgt. I found that obit to. I found out when he enlisted by a friend using ancestry.com

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