Vietnam War Army Class A's

[ItemCo16527]

Hi, all.

 

It's been ages, since I've posted, so I thought I'd share my current interest: Vietnam War-era Army uniforms.

 

First up, is a 1972-date blouse to a Staff Sergeant who served in Vietnam with the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile), then later with the 25th Infantry Division. Judging by the date, he served with the 25th after its return to Schofield Barracks, rather than on a second combat tour. The lining shows evidence of two rows of three ribbons, but no badges (CIB, CMB, Air Crew, etc.).

[ItemCo16527]

Next, a Specialist 4th Class who served with the 196th Light Infantry Brigade in Vietnam, and later with the 4th Infantry Division. Unfortunately, like the above uniform, it isn't named. It's also missing the Infantry shoulder cord and a unit award.

[ItemCo16527]

This one is named, and belonged to a Specialist 5th Class who served with the 3/82nd Artillery, 196th Light Infantry Brigade. The ribbons are Vietnamese-made. Interestingly, he wears an Air Defense Artillery collar disc. The repair tag was found in one of the pockets, so I do have an ID on this one: SP5 K*O*S*T*A*N*I*C*H.

[ItemCo16527]

Next, SP4 Smith. The uniform is about as complete as it can get. One of the pins had fallen off the name tag, so I had to glue it back on. I'm not sure why it has 1st Cavalry Regiment DUIs. I haven't found anything on any battalion of the 1st Cav Regiment ever being assigned to the 1st Cavalry Division. Still, this one has everything: DUIs, Sterling CIB, unit awards, Air Medal and ARCOM ribbons, etc.

[ItemCo16527]

Finally, I saved the best for last. This one is ID'd, thanks to the seller providing his name, but I won't post it here as I believe he is still alive and wish to protect his privacy. The veteran served in Vietnam with the 8th Army Security Agency Field Station (a.k.a. the 8th Radio Research Field Station) from 1972 to 1973. After his tour in Vietnam, he was then assigned to the Berlin Brigade. Unfortunately, I am missing his Vietnam Service medal and RVN Campaign Medal. This is definitely one of the most interesting uniforms I've owned due to the secret nature of ASA operations during the Cold War.

[atb]

For a time, the Branch of Service insignia for all Artillery was the crossed cannon with missile. There was a single Artillery Branch, no Field, no Air Defense, just Artillery. It split around 1974, I think. Units had designations that described their particular weapons, i.e. 8th Battalion, 1st Artillery (Nike Hercules) or 3d Battalion, 9th Artillery (8" Howitzer). In 1970, I was assigned to the 30th Artillery Brigade (Air Defense). After the split, it became 30th Air Defense Artillery Brigade.

[ItemCo16527]

7 minutes ago, atb said:

For a time, the Branch of Service insignia for all Artillery was the crossed cannon with missile. There was a single Artillery Branch, no Field, no Air Defense, just Artillery. It split around 1974, I think. Units had designations that described their particular weapons, i.e. 8th Battalion, 1st Artillery (Nike Hercules) or 3d Battalion, 9th Artillery (8" Howitzer). In 1970, I was assigned to the 30th Artillery Brigade (Air Defense). After the split, it became 30th Air Defense Artillery Brigade.

Thanks for the information! I had no idea about that. 

[patches]

In regard to your Cav coat with the 1st Cav DIs on it, it will date from 1971-74 and will be for the 3rd Squadron 1st Cavalry which was a part of the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Hood Texas, it was inherited from the 1st Armored Division. When most of the Flags and Colors left Vietnam in 1971 (Some elemts of the Cav remained in action in Vietnam past 1971), 1st Armored Division reflagged as the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Hood, Texas. 4th Armored Division reflagged as the 1st Armored Division in West Germany. 4th Armored Division inactivated. It was a new concept trialed by the Cav, it was called Triple Capacity, or TRICAP. Armor/Mech Inf, Air Cav and Airmobile Inf.

 

http://www.first-team.us/tableaux/chapt_09/

[Timberwolf]

Here’s my only Vietnam Era uniform in the collection. Nice set of class A’s to a member of the 176th Aviation Co assigned to the 23rd ID and his South Korean Marine Corps camo shirt. 

[US82Bravo]

9 hours ago, atb said:

For a time, the Branch of Service insignia for all Artillery was the crossed cannon with missile. There was a single Artillery Branch, no Field, no Air Defense, just Artillery. It split around 1974, I think. Units had designations that described their particular weapons, i.e. 8th Battalion, 1st Artillery (Nike Hercules) or 3d Battalion, 9th Artillery (8" Howitzer). In 1970, I was assigned to the 30th Artillery Brigade (Air Defense). After the split, it became 30th Air Defense Artillery Brigade.

 

From TIOH -  in part (emphasis added)

 

" It was superseded in 1957 by the consolidated Artillery insignia consisting of the crossed field guns surmounted by a missile. In 1968 when the Air Defense Artillery and the Field Artillery were authorized to have separate insignia, the former Field Artillery insignia was reinstated."

 

https://tioh.army.mil/Catalog/Heraldry.aspx?HeraldryId=15342&CategoryId=9362&grp=2&menu=Uniformed Services&ps=24&p=0

 

Larry

 

 

[atb]

Thanks US82Bravo. Wow, I was off by a bit. I went and looked it up and refreshed my memory. The ADA became a branch in 1968 and continued to wear the crossed cannon with missile while FA branch readopted the crossed cannon insignia. From 1957 to 1968 was the time period when the crossed cannon and missile was the Artillery Branch insignia.

[ItemCo16527]

On 6/5/2020 at 8:28 PM, patches said:

In regard to your Cav coat with the 1st Cav DIs on it, it will date from 1971-74 and will be for the 3rd Squadron 1st Cavalry which was a part of the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Hood Texas, it was inherited from the 1st Armored Division. When most of the Flags and Colors left Vietnam in 1971 (Some elemts of the Cav remained in action in Vietnam past 1971), 1st Armored Division reflagged as the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Hood, Texas. 4th Armored Division reflagged as the 1st Armored Division in West Germany. 4th Armored Division inactivated. It was a new concept trialed by the Cav, it was called Triple Capacity, or TRICAP. Armor/Mech Inf, Air Cav and Airmobile Inf.

 

http://www.first-team.us/tableaux/chapt_09/

Awesome! Mystery solved. Thank you!

[ItemCo16527]

Thanks for the info on the ADA insignia, guys. This will be great for future reference!

[ItemCo16527]

On 6/5/2020 at 10:00 PM, Timberwolf said:

Here’s my only Vietnam Era uniform in the collection. Nice set of class A’s to a member of the 176th Aviation Co assigned to the 23rd ID and his South Korean Marine Corps camo shirt. 

Awesome grouping! Love the pocket patch and the ROK camo. Thanks for sharing!

[ItemCo16527]

A couple of newer acquisitions!

 

The first one already has a thread of its own, which you can find here. It belonged to a Specialist 4 who served as an Infantryman in Vietnam where he earned an Army Commendation Medal with Valor "V" (although, the V device is missing). He then reclassed to Field Artillery after his tour which I found pretty interesting.

 

The second belonged to a Sergeant who served in Vietnam with the 1st Aviation Brigade. The uniform features DUIs for the 210th Aviation Battalion (Combat). It's missing the current assignment SSI, but the "ghost" in the lining is for one of the Armored Divisions. The bottom row of ribbons are Vietnamese-made, but the top row appear to be U.S.-made. The best part is that the device on the RVN campaign is an unauthorized "69-70" clasp, so I know for certain when he served his tour of duty. The Presidential Unit Citation and Meritorious Unit Commendation are both U.S.-made, whereas the RVN Gallantry Cross unit award is Vietnamese-made. His collar disc is the Branch Unassigned disc, so I'm not sure what his MOS could have been.

 

Unfortunately, neither are named. Still, they're two more great examples the various types of award and insignia combinations & variations from the Vietnam era.

[ItemCo16527]

Good evening, ladies and gents!

 

I just added a new Vietnam War Army Class A blouse to my collection. Unlike most of my other ones, this one is ID'd. It is, unfortunately, missing the current assignment SSI and name tag, but retains everything else. The ribbon bars are Vietnamese-made, and the RVN Campaign ribbon has a "66-67" date bar, rather than the standard "60-" one. The veteran was initially assigned to the 1st Battalion, 44th Air Defense Artillery Regiment at Dong Ha, but was later transferred to the 4th Battalion, 60th Air Defense Artillery Regiment at Pleiku. Interestingly, the 1/44th ADA was awarded the Navy Presidential Unit Citation for the period 27 November 1966 to 15 September 1967. I obtained this uniform from a gentleman who had obtained it directly from the veteran decades ago, so it is exactly as it was when he was given it. I have edited the veteran's name out for privacy.

[patches]

4 hours ago, ItemCo16527 said:

Good evening, ladies and gents!

 

I just added a new Vietnam War Army Class A blouse to my collection. Unlike most of my other ones, this one is ID'd. It is, unfortunately, missing the current assignment SSI and name tag, but retains everything else. The ribbon bars are Vietnamese-made, and the RVN Campaign ribbon has a "66-67" date bar, rather than the standard "60-" one. The veteran was initially assigned to the 1st Battalion, 44th Air Defense Artillery Regiment at Dong Ha, but was later transferred to the 4th Battalion, 60th Air Defense Artillery Regiment at Pleiku. Interestingly, the 1/44th ADA was awarded the Navy Presidential Unit Citation for the period 27 November 1966 to 15 September 1967. I obtained this uniform from a gentleman who had obtained it directly from the veteran decades ago, so it is exactly as it was when he was given it. I have edited the veteran's name out for privacy.

Both these battalions were M42 Duster Battalions, their correct titles then were 1st Battalion 44th Artillery (Automatic Weapon, Self Propelled) 4th Battalion 60th Artillery (Automatic Weapon, Self Propelled) and would wear in the 66-67 period the branch insignia of Artillery, that being as mentioned earlier on, the Crossed Cannons and Upright Missile, that's as despite any local unit application of ADA or Air Defense Artillery on vehicle bumpers or unit stationary/paper work of some units that fired air defense weaponry, there was no specific or separate Air Defense Branch, in it units that did use AD weapons, and those that used tube and ground to ground missiles where all under the new Artillery Branch and had as their branch insignia this crossed cannons with missile.

 

The use of a U.S. Army Vietnam combat patch was a error on someone, because both these Arty units were organic the I Field Force Vietnam Artillery, and that would or should be the combat patch worn. 

 

 

Provided there was no patch there that was removed, the lack of an organizational patch may be indicative of  the fact that this guy went home to either Oakland Army Terminal or Ft Lewis and was an immediate discharge, the wrong patch sewn on by the people their with no organizational patch sewn as was customary after a certain point, that shoulder reserved for patch of soldier's next duty assignment, but as we've seen in a few other topics, sometimes the soldier was not going to another unit, his time was up, or very near his time and was dropped, and still his left shoulder was bare exempt for his combat patch on his right shoulder, and then sometimes soldiers getting immediately discharged had there Vietnam unit patch sewn on that left side with no combat patch on the right, this leads me to believe that some men who were immediately ETSed at Oakland/Ft Lewis, and since their military service was at an end, the last unit, their Vietnam unit, was sewn on to the left side. This or the men did this on their own accord before heading home permanently.

 

The DIs? my guess always is that Oakland or Ft Lewis stations CIF had a whole lot of Vietnam and even South Korea based unit DIs to give out, whether by request of soldier or as a matter of policy, more inclined to think by request by the number of Class As worn by discharged vets in collections that have no DIs. Plus one more thing to consider is probably alot soldiers returning had all the insignia available in Vietnam to begin with, and brought it with them home, to include DIs, theater made or U.S., theater made CIBs, CMBs etc etc, here they just transferred it to their New AG Class A issued items some time after their arrival if they wanted.

[ItemCo16527]

Thanks for the info, patches! I was so tired when I posted last night, I forgot how Artillery units were designated at the time and just went with the info on the note lol

 

I'll have to double check and see if there's any ghosting where the current assignment patch should be. I was puzzled by the USARV patch, since I looked up his units in Stanton's Vietnam Order of Battle and saw they were both with IFFV. Probably a mistake on someone's part like you said. 

 

It's certainly an interesting uniform, and I'm glad the previous owner kept it together and made notes. 

[tredhed2]

20 hours ago, patches said:

Both these battalions were M42 Duster Battalions, their correct titles then were 1st Battalion 44th Artillery (Automatic Weapon, Self Propelled) 4th Battalion 60th Artillery (Automatic Weapon, Self Propelled) and would wear in the 66-67 period the branch insignia of Artillery, that being as mentioned earlier on, the Crossed Cannons and Upright Missile, that's as despite any local unit application of ADA or Air Defense Artillery on vehicle bumpers or unit stationary/paper work of some units that fired air defense weaponry, there was no specific or separate Air Defense Branch, in it units that did use AD weapons, and those that used tube and ground to ground missiles where all under the new Artillery Branch and had as their branch insignia this crossed cannons with missile.

 

The use of a U.S. Army Vietnam combat patch was a error on someone, because both these Arty units were organic the I Field Force Vietnam Artillery, and that would or should be the combat patch worn. 

 

 

Provided there was no patch there that was removed, the lack of an organizational patch may be indicative of  the fact that this guy went home to either Oakland Army Terminal or Ft Lewis and was an immediate discharge, the wrong patch sewn on by the people their with no organizational patch sewn as was customary after a certain point, that shoulder reserved for patch of soldier's next duty assignment, but as we've seen in a few other topics, sometimes the soldier was not going to another unit, his time was up, or very near his time and was dropped, and still his left shoulder was bare exempt for his combat patch on his right shoulder, and then sometimes soldiers getting immediately discharged had there Vietnam unit patch sewn on that left side with no combat patch on the right, this leads me to believe that some men who were immediately ETSed at Oakland/Ft Lewis, and since their military service was at an end, the last unit, their Vietnam unit, was sewn on to the left side. This or the men did this on their own accord before heading home permanently.

 

The DIs? my guess always is that Oakland or Ft Lewis stations CIF had a whole lot of Vietnam and even South Korea based unit DIs to give out, whether by request of soldier or as a matter of policy, more inclined to think by request by the number of Class As worn by discharged vets in collections that have no DIs. Plus one more thing to consider is probably alot soldiers returning had all the insignia available in Vietnam to begin with, and brought it with them home, to include DIs, theater made or U.S., theater made CIBs, CMBs etc etc, here they just transferred it to their New AG Class A issued items some time after their arrival if they wanted.

Begining ca. 1968 - it was in effect when I ETSd in 1971 - if you extended your tour for 30 days DoD would knock 90 days off your active duty TiS. Many personnel who were involved in this program flew back to the world to Ft Lewis and you were processed out in record time. You had to surrender your VN duffle bags and they were pretty much cleaned out of in-country items. I found I had been issued a brand new duffle bag, brand new fatigues and a brand new field jacket like what I had in basic. I think, but cannot remember, the new fatigues were due to my liability remains with inactive time, been too long.

[ItemCo16527]

Thanks for your post. I'd never heard of this program before. 

[ItemCo16527]

On 2/12/2021 at 12:49 AM, patches said:

Both these battalions were M42 Duster Battalions, their correct titles then were 1st Battalion 44th Artillery (Automatic Weapon, Self Propelled) 4th Battalion 60th Artillery (Automatic Weapon, Self Propelled) and would wear in the 66-67 period the branch insignia of Artillery, that being as mentioned earlier on, the Crossed Cannons and Upright Missile, that's as despite any local unit application of ADA or Air Defense Artillery on vehicle bumpers or unit stationary/paper work of some units that fired air defense weaponry, there was no specific or separate Air Defense Branch, in it units that did use AD weapons, and those that used tube and ground to ground missiles where all under the new Artillery Branch and had as their branch insignia this crossed cannons with missile.

 

The use of a U.S. Army Vietnam combat patch was a error on someone, because both these Arty units were organic the I Field Force Vietnam Artillery, and that would or should be the combat patch worn. 

 

 

Provided there was no patch there that was removed, the lack of an organizational patch may be indicative of  the fact that this guy went home to either Oakland Army Terminal or Ft Lewis and was an immediate discharge, the wrong patch sewn on by the people their with no organizational patch sewn as was customary after a certain point, that shoulder reserved for patch of soldier's next duty assignment, but as we've seen in a few other topics, sometimes the soldier was not going to another unit, his time was up, or very near his time and was dropped, and still his left shoulder was bare exempt for his combat patch on his right shoulder, and then sometimes soldiers getting immediately discharged had there Vietnam unit patch sewn on that left side with no combat patch on the right, this leads me to believe that some men who were immediately ETSed at Oakland/Ft Lewis, and since their military service was at an end, the last unit, their Vietnam unit, was sewn on to the left side. This or the men did this on their own accord before heading home permanently.

 

The DIs? my guess always is that Oakland or Ft Lewis stations CIF had a whole lot of Vietnam and even South Korea based unit DIs to give out, whether by request of soldier or as a matter of policy, more inclined to think by request by the number of Class As worn by discharged vets in collections that have no DIs. Plus one more thing to consider is probably alot soldiers returning had all the insignia available in Vietnam to begin with, and brought it with them home, to include DIs, theater made or U.S., theater made CIBs, CMBs etc etc, here they just transferred it to their New AG Class A issued items some time after their arrival if they wanted.

Update: I finally got around to checking the lining, and there's no ghost of an SSI on the left shoulder. The uniform is also dated 1967 so it looks like it was issued after he returned from Vietnam. Seems he picked up a set of ribbons in country, then put them on his new uniform.

[ItemCo16527]

I just acquired another Army enlisted man's blouse from Vietnam. This one is particularly interesting as it has the Joint Service Commendation Medal ribbon. In all my years, I can't recall ever seeing JSCM's awarded to junior enlisted men for Vietnam. I've seen probably thousands of medal groups, ribbon groups, and photos of soldiers in uniform in my life, and I don't remember seeing a JSCM that was awarded for Vietnam.

 

When I first saw this uniform on eBay, my first thought was that it was a "put-together". However, since it had the name tag on it, I thought I'd take a chance and go to the National Archives website and check the Records of Awards and Decorations of Honor During the Vietnam War section. I never have any luck with this particular page, but thought it was worth a shot. Imagine my surprise when I was actually able to confirm SP4 W*I*E*L*A*N*D's Joint Service Commendation Medal in 1972! You can view the award here: JSCM. I'll keep hunting and hopefully turn up more interesting uniforms!

[patches]

His OBIT is online,

[ItemCo16527]

Hey, Patches! Yup, I found his obituary doing preliminary research. Apparently, he graduated from college before going into the Army. I don't know if he was drafted, or if he volunteered though. Wish I could get my hands on the citation for his JSCM!

[ItemCo16527]

I just picked up another Vietnam era Army uniform. This one is to a Sergeant First Class who served two tours in Vietnam where he earned the Bronze Star and Air Medal, and possibly the Army Commendation Medal. He also qualified for six battle stars on his Vietnam Service Medal and 4 overseas service bars. Unfortunately, it's missing the collar discs and one DUI. The interesting thing about the Transport School DUI is the red felt backing. Does anyone know what this means? Instructor perhaps?