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Coveralls for review


helmetman54
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On 6/7/2020 at 3:42 AM, ken88 said:

Hey,

 

Nice looking coveralls. There's still some debate around whether these coveralls were used in the ETO. Some collectors seem to doubt the fact that they were indeed used in Europe during WW2. Photographic evidence suggests they were. The example that I have in my collection came from France and has some significant wear around the shoulders, suggesting they may have seen use around tanks. After all, the frog skin camo was field tested by 2nd armored division elements in Normandy.

 

The following picture unquestionably proves that the US frog skin camo coveralls were worn in Europe/Normandy during WW2. End of discussion. This of course does not take away the fact they saw more widespread use in training or in the PTO, but there's no denying that the camouflage coveralls were used in the ETO. Not anymore. 

 

 

 

 

Snipers-Brit-snipers-capture-German-SS-sniper-3-edited-1024.jpg

 

just curious if this is a training picture or actually in Normandy?  Odd that the Two Brits are not carrying any equipment..no water bottles,packs,ammo pouches,webbing etc. I have seen other pictures of training where German uniforms and other things were worn. Not out of the question to wear a set of camo coveralls to "play the  enemy"

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helmetman54

Thank you for all the assistance and information.  I am working to find out more information on the vet that brought these home.  If I find any anything, I will post.

 

HM54

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On 6/14/2020 at 6:45 AM, doyler said:

just curious if this is a training picture or actually in Normandy?  Odd that the Two Brits are not carrying any equipment..no water bottles,packs,ammo pouches,webbing etc. I have seen other pictures of training where German uniforms and other things were worn. Not out of the question to wear a set of camo coveralls to "play the  enemy"

 

Which is exactly what happened, as explained earlier in the topic. I guess they didn't have a German uniform or camo at hand.

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These are excerpts from the book The German sniper 1914-1945 by Peter R. Senich. 

Just posting for what it's worth. 

 

This doesn't necessarily mean that the photos weren't staged but I figured this was interesting enough to share since the author must have thought (or known?) that the pictures were taken in combat.

 

From what I could find the Brits are probably members of the 1/5th Battalion Welch Regiment, 53rd (Welsh) Division. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

71575825_3169063759849916_8960064920015007211_n.jpg

104349354_608239666486736_5375836535381939500_n.jpg

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currahee1942

This is a British instructor showing what an SS sniper looks like for comparison. Why would they use american camo coveralls if they had ss camo ?

26F462AA-8636-4919-961A-C9C45DC68962.png

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Apparently that is a Canadian sniper that went into the field with this outfit, not an instructor showing and that this guy managed to pick up a smock doesn't mean one was around when the film was made. They just needed a piece of camouflage, and apparently that coverall was available :)

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currahee1942
12 minutes ago, earlymb said:

Apparently that is a Canadian sniper that went into the field with this outfit, not an instructor showing and that this guy managed to pick up a smock doesn't mean one was around when the film was made. They just needed a piece of camouflage, and apparently that coverall was available :)

Apparently this is not a canadian sniper. A British sniper demonstrates his camouflage at a sniper school in a French village, 27 July 1944.

this is the backside of the picture. Source is IWM

267287A5-5B7D-41F1-A8AF-886680F7B8F3.jpeg

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It’s interesting to say the least.
This guy is beyond British in dress camouflage style wise.
The headdress is typically gillie style and Nothing like a German SS man.
But is only for reconstruction training.
He had a type m 40 Oak smock obviously freshly captured.
Lee enfield weapon.
Battlefield wool trousers and ammo boots.
Cool picture
Owen


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728dbad7224009274e5db472f749e350.jpg
Here’s an m 40 oak with the plain tree over print i is similar to the one in the wartime photo
It’s quite clear to see this garment is in a different league than the US flage.
But at this stage of the war the Germans were also printing for 14 years.


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Turns out the series of pictures featuring the camo coveralls was taken by a sgt. Bert Hardy, 1/5th Welch Regt. somewhere in Normandy on the 10th of August, 1944. 

 

These pictures were most likely taken on a training mission as the words sniper and action are sometimes put between quotation marks in the description. 

 

This does in any case mean that the camo coveralls were in France at the time, and that they were most likely used to represent the German sniper once the Americans got rid of them following the friendly fire incidents. This makes sense when you think about it, I doubt the allies would have carried them into combat knowing they would be mistaken for SS camouflage. 

 

I hope this settles it. 

 

I added another picture of the British sniper pretending to be German that clearly demonstrates the staging of the photograph. 

 

Please note: all pictures are part of the IWM collections. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sniperiwm23.jpg

sniperiwm22.jpg

sniperiwm21.jpg

sniperiwm20.jpg

sniperiwm2.jpg

sniperiwm.jpg

sniperiwm14.jpg

sniperiwm13.jpg

sniperiwm15.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

There is a well known photo (unfortunetly i dont remember which book its in) that has both the 1 piece jungle suit and the 2 piece camo suit being worn in Normandy.

Photo is 2 US Army officers in camo posing with souvenirs. Cufftitles, Iron Cross and an SS officer tunic (Das Reich cufftitle on tunic).

Obviously the 2 piece Army camo was more common to the units that recieved camo , but 1 piece was definetly worn in Europe.

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  • 3 years later...
On 6/5/2020 at 10:31 PM, patches said:

Here is another photo from that series with CPT Patrick Casey and General Wingate enroute to Chowringhee. 

 

 

Never a problem, I posted images in the past either  uncaptioned and or partially captioned, or flat out wrong in captioning, other members usually get to the bottom of it.

 

This one I spotted on facebook in a Wingate search, the GI with him is given as the 900th Abn Avn Eng Co C.O. Capt Pat Casey flying out of India to BROADWAY in Burma, So we assume the others are also GIs of the 900th Abn Avn Eng Co too  in India (This region of India, North East, is tropical just like over the border in Burma

 

General Orde Charles Wingate (right) rests while enroute to Chowringhee. On the left is Captain Patrick Casey of the 900th Engineer Company..jpg

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On 6/8/2020 at 10:15 PM, kammo-man said:

There is a poof a guy riding a Harley wearing them coveralls somewhere in Normandy out there I can’t find it on my computer though


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You're looking for this?

IMG_20220801_164917_678.jpg

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