1950s USAF Ike

[FtrPlt]

Saw a 1950s USAF officer Ike at a local yard sale today. Badging struck me as odd. Bullion US collars, embroidered-on-blue Major's oakleaves. And what I presume to be holes from a clutch-fastener type aircrew wing. Also a pair of flight trousers in the same  blue fabric. Supposedly belonged to a former B-29 crewman.

Not sure what the regs were back then but I would presume that badging types would be of the same type -- ie all embroidered; all pin-on; or all bullion?

Also, the blue flying pants worn with an Ike? I vaguely recall seeing a blue 4-pocket flying shirt of some type that would be more of a match to the trousers.

 

[patches]

14 hours ago, FtrPlt said:

Saw a 1950s USAF officer Ike at a local yard sale today. Badging struck me as odd. Bullion US collars, embroidered-on-blue Major's oakleaves. And what I presume to be holes from a clutch-fastener type aircrew wing. Also a pair of flight trousers in the same  blue fabric. Supposedly belonged to a former B-29 crewman.

Not sure what the regs were back then but I would presume that badging types would be of the same type -- ie all embroidered; all pin-on; or all bullion?

Also, the blue flying pants worn with an Ike? I vaguely recall seeing a blue 4-pocket flying shirt of some type that would be more of a match to the trousers.

 

Well as far as the direct embroidered bullion insignia without a direct embroidered Wings will be nothing out of the ordinary.

 

To show the several variations to be seen in the period, here's early-sh 1950s one, a Khaki Coat, with Embroidered Ribbon Rack to include a PUC (With Yellow/Gold Bullion Border acting as it;s Frame), but with all metal insignia to include his Wings.

 

 

[FtrPlt]

Hi, Thanks for your reply.

 

I probably worded my question poorly. I was enquiring about the mixed badging types being worn together -- bullion, sew-on, and pin on all on the jacket.

 

Early 1950s button-front, blue ike that has sew-on bullion US collars; embroidered, sewn-on Major oak leaves on matching blue fabric backing; and 2×holes suggesting a pin-on  wing just above the left pocket. 

 

Phone was full so I didnt get photos.  

 

 

[doinworkinvans]

I see no problem with how you are describing that jacket - sounds like a sharp looking jacket.

 

It would be the same as a WWII US Army Air Force jacket with a normal plain jane AAF patch on one shoulder and a bullion 15th Air Force on the other could be any mixture of ribbon bar designs and either pin on wings or sewn on wings or sewn on bullion wings....any type of mix and match

[Justin B.]

I'm not clear on the difference between "bullion" and "embroidered" here.

[FtrPlt]

Bullion embroidered. This photo credit to reddevil1311 from a 2012 post

 

 

Embroidered (plain colored thread, not bullion)(photo source: web search)


During my service, the badging had to be the same. In my case, it was silver-oxide or mirror finish. You couldn't mix-and-match the types.

When I think bullion, I imagine this -- collars and wings using the same material.  Not silver oxide US with bullion wing.

[patches]

I was looking for this topic, could find it right away 😆. A great one by Moderator  CNY Militaria, a couple of  bullion USAF Officer Coats from the time period, some with what appears to be direct embroidered insignia, that's the insignia directly embroidered (Bulllion) through or on the area insignia is to be placed, with some that appear to be embroidered bullion insignia on separate cloth panels, that are either trimmed to the quick and hand sewn on or having their excess material folded under to prevent fraying with these separate patches if you will hand sewn on coats.

 

 

 

 

[FtrPlt]

Cool link! Kind of goes back to my original question re: was it 'normal/usual' for badging to consist of mixed types? From the items in the link, it appears that the badging is all of the same type -- all bullion; presumably all metal; or all embroidered although I've not seen any photos of sewn-on, embroidered on blue, badging.

[patches]

Then there's always the problem with promotions and additional awards, this causing a an officer to trash his nice custom made insignia to wear his new rank and to accommodate his new ribbon for the award he just got.

 

[patches]

One more by CNY, a 70s one, direct embroidered General Stars and U.S. but with metal wings, metal missileman badge and ribbon mounts and ribbon slides.

 

 

 

[FtrPlt]

2 hours ago, patches said:

Then there's always the problem with promotions and additional awards, this causing a an officer to trash his nice custom made insignia to wear his new rank and to accommodate his new ribbon for the award he just got.

 

That's always the great unknown.  

I'm not well versed on 1950s dress regs. From the limited reading I've done on the original Shade 84 uniforms, it seemed like USAF was hellbent on getting rid of the 'personal expression' that was common coming out of WW2.

The uniforms on the links you provided are awesome!

[Justin B.]

9 hours ago, FtrPlt said:

During my service, the badging had to be the same. In my case, it was silver-oxide or mirror finish. You couldn't mix-and-match the types.

When I think bullion, I imagine this -- collars and wings using the same material.  Not silver oxide US with bullion wing.

 

The 1952 Air Officer's Guide says:

An officer's insignia of grade will be silver- or gold-color metal or silver- or gold-color wire embroidery.

Same for the U.S.: "silver-color wire embroidery." It doesn't say anything about requiring  all metal or all embroidery, but that may have been in the actual regs. It does seem unusual that plain thread embroidery would be worn on the same uniform with the bullion, I don't recall seeing that myself.

[FtrPlt]

The mismatch was my area of concern. It was cheap money for the jacket and flying trousers but I really don't care too much for humped-up uniforms. I don't think that was the case here but the odds of finding bullion rank on that shade of blue is probably pretty remote. I see bullion wings occassionally but this jacket had pin-on.

I didn't look closely enough at the bullion "US" collars to see if they were recent additions? Probably unlikely outside of a family member trying to put the guys uniform back together for him (or themselves)

[USMCRECON]

I've posted these before but here is a collage of two USAF uniforms that have been in my collection for many years now.  Both have a mixture of bullion and standard insignia, custom and standard ribbons.  I don't think it was all that uncommon to see this arrangement and have never found ant AFRs that disallowed it.  

[edjperkins]

On 6/1/2020 at 12:17 PM, FtrPlt said:

That's always the great unknown.  

I'm not well versed on 1950s dress regs. From the limited reading I've done on the original Shade 84 uniforms, it seemed like USAF was hellbent on getting rid of the 'personal expression' that was common coming out of WW2.

The uniforms on the links you provided are awesome!

The Air Force after WWII, wanted just a plain simple look to their new blue uniiform.  

[USMCRECON]

Thanks...........

 

Bill