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Nickman983

Ebay 29th ID Helmt

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This one popped up on Ebay earlier today. Pictures are bad but I'm interested to hear thoughts on this one. If it turns out to be real it'll go past what I could spend on a helmet right now so I've got no skin in the game here.

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The seller relisted this one with much better pictures

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With the better pics I'm thinking this one has a pretty good shot.

 

Still interested in hearing what others think about this one.


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Could we get a link to the listing?

And I would say probably not 327 GIR markings, they would be apart of the 101st AB, not the 29th ID. 

I guess tac marks on the sides could be possible for the 29th ID (they were used by many divisions in the ETO and PTO to distinguish regiments and other units not just airborne divisions). However, I cannot recall ever seeing a tac mark painted 29th ID helmet, in historical pictures/footage or with another original helmet. If anyone can find a photo though i'd be interested. 

A better closeup of the decals would be needed for me to form a better opinion, I would be suspciious though. It looks like the liner and helmet have been together for a while though, and it looks like there was a net on the helmet for a long time.

I think it would be better to wait for some of the experts to comment.

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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If the markings are all legitimate I think that the helmet was at one time a 101st lid and reissued to the 29th ID.

The A/B markings looks to be painted over while the 29th insignia is vivid.

If this helmet has any chance of being good I doubt we’ll hear from any ‘’experts’’ until the auction is over.

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26 minutes ago, manayunkman said:

If this helmet has any chance of being good I doubt we’ll hear from any ‘’experts’’ until the auction is over.

I considered that before posting, but I doubt this one would fly under the radar in either case. The listing was titled well and, now that it's got better pictures, it's going to get a decent amount of attention anyway.


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It’s a case of exposure versus education.

Less education means less competition.

A hundred potential buyers could be viewing this lid but if only three have the ability to figure it out then 97 are going to keep their bids fairly low.

Take me for instance, I would love to have it but I have very limited education so I’m not really in the race.

 


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12 minutes ago, manayunkman said:

It’s a case of exposure versus education.

Less education means less competition.

A hundred potential buyers could be viewing this lid but if only three have the ability to figure it out then 97 are going to keep their bids fairly low.

Take me for instance, I would love to have it but I have very limited education so I’m not really in the race.

 

Totally agree

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62 watchers, 9 bidders, 13 bids, $102.50 right now with 6 days and 13 hours left...

I'd say it has a chance, but we will see.

I have a  few questions. 

Why would a 29th ID member need to "repurpose" a helmet from a 327th GIR member? If they did find it and repurpose it, it would have had to have been in Normandy, but I find it unlikely that this scenario would happen. Where would the 29th ID member find the correct OD paint in the field? Why would they choose a helmet with tac markings on them. Why would they need to repurpose the helmet of a, presumably, fallen 327 Gir soldier when they could probably get a helmet from a unit extra or even from the supply lines. How would they get a hold of the helmet as well to repaint? The 29th ID and 327 GIR while both being in Normandy, were not necessarily in the same sector in Normandy?

Honestly I don't know about the feasibility of this helmet being 29th ID and 327 GIR. If someone can prove me wrong though I'd be interested to see. 

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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48 minutes ago, manayunkman said:

It’s a case of exposure versus education.

Less education means less competition.

A hundred potential buyers could be viewing this lid but if only three have the ability to figure it out then 97 are going to keep their bids fairly low.

Take me for instance, I would love to have it but I have very limited education so I’m not really in the race.

 

Good point. I guess at the very least we'll get an idea based on where the bidding ends.


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22 minutes ago, huntssurplus said:

62 watchers, 9 bidders, 13 bids, $102.50 right now with 6 days and 13 hours left...

I'd say it has a chance, but we will see.

I have a  few questions. 

Why would a 29th ID member need to "repurpose" a helmet from a 327th GIR member? If they did find it and repurpose it, it would have had to have been in Normandy, but I find it unlikely that this scenario would happen. Where would the 29th ID member find the correct OD paint in the field? Why would they choose a helmet with tac markings on them. Why would they need to repurpose the helmet of a, presumably, fallen 327 Gir soldier when they could probably get a helmet from a unit extra or even from the supply lines. How would they get a hold of the helmet as well to repaint? The 29th ID and 327 GIR while both being in Normandy, were not necessarily in the same sector in Normandy?

Honestly I don't know about the feasibility of this helmet being 29th ID and 327 GIR. If someone can prove me wrong though I'd be interested to see. 

Hunt

Assuming both markings are legit I think there are one of two explanations:

1.) The helmet originally belonged to a member of the 327th. It was found by someone in Normandy and was used by a member of the 29th who needed a helmet. The helmet was repainted at some point in the field and marked with the 29th ID insignia. In this scenario I doubt the 29th soldier would have cared much about the tac markings if they were missing a helmet and would have taken whatever he could get.

2.) The helmet originally belonged to a member of the 327th. It was either lost and then found or handed in at some point after DDAY to get repainted. The helmet was refinished in a field depot and eventually made its way into the hands of a member of the 29th ID.

 

I'll agree that the chances of a 29th ID soldier coming across a helmet if a 327th soldier are probably slim. I think scenario 2 is a possible explanation though. Here's a video of helmets getting repainted, supposedly somewhere in the ETO in 1945

https://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675076669_reclamation-activities_helmets-piled-up_man-cleaning_helmets-of-soldiers-and-medics


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2 minutes ago, Nickman983 said:

Assuming both markings are legit I think there are one of two explanations:

1.) The helmet originally belonged to a member of the 327th. It was found by someone in Normandy and was used by a member of the 29th who needed a helmet. The helmet was repainted at some point in the field and marked with the 29th ID insignia. In this scenario I doubt the 29th soldier would have cared much about the tac markings if they were missing a helmet and would have taken whatever he could get.

2.) The helmet originally belonged to a member of the 327th. It was either lost and then found or handed in at some point after DDAY to get repainted. The helmet was refinished in a field depot and eventually made its way into the hands of a member of the 29th ID.

 

I'll agree that the chances of a 29th ID soldier coming across a helmet if a 327th soldier are probably slim. I think scenario 2 is a possible explanation though. Here's a video of helmets getting repainted, supposedly somewhere in the ETO in 1945

https://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675076669_reclamation-activities_helmets-piled-up_man-cleaning_helmets-of-soldiers-and-medics

I appreciate your theories, and the link has some interesting pictures, but I think the actual likelihood of an occurrence is minimal. Yes I will agree helmets were repainted in field depots and reissued to troops, but how late in the war was the 29th ID painting their insignia on helmets? Still seems like there needs to be some more evidence or provenance to be sure of anything.

Curious though for more opinions

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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Somebody likes it as it’s up to 750


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$760.00, 104 Watchers, 21 bids, 9 bidders, 5 days and 9 hours left. Current high bidder has bid on it 11 times so far. Only one other bidder has bid multiple times and they have bid a total of three times. 

I'm guessing quite a few bidders are holding out for the end, not sure how many people check auction patterns before they bid, but for anyone thinking about bidding on this one i would hold off until the end. It looks like this bidder will keep bidding to stay on top for now.

This one will definitely go high, if I was a gambling man I'd put money on 2.5K +

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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I’m no expert but this helmet looks contrived. The “shadow” of the net is bizarre. Not something I would want.

 

Steve


What dreams he made for us to dream

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Are the 327 Tack marks correct?

 

here is an original one (a forum member posted this one back in August 2, 2014 and that helmet has different position of the white dot

I'm far from an expert on these but why the difference?

 

 

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That helmet was posted by jkash, given his history I would be suspicious of its originality. 

 

Here's one uncovered by a different member 

 

I can't comment on the originality of this one, but here's an example from the Airborne & Special Operations Museum in Fayetteville, NC

 

helmet 01.jpg

helmet 02.jpg


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The dot refers to the battalion they are apart of. 1st battalion dot in front, 2nd battalion dot on top, 3rd battalion dot behind I believe. So the placement of the dot will vary helmet to helmet depending on what unit the soldier would be apart of.

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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ok - thx for the tac placement and battalion reference -

my question is why would the helmet for sale have the dot in front of the club on one side and then the dot behind the club on the other side - wouldn't that be confusing? 

their in the 1st battalion (dot in front) on one side and then the 3rd battalion (dot behind) on the other side?

again I'm not an expert but seems strange? 


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2 hours ago, mdk0911 said:

...my question is why would the helmet for sale have the dot in front of the club on one side and then the dot behind the club on the other side - wouldn't that be confusing?

again I'm not an expert but seems strange? 

Not at all strange. One Battalion would be noted by the tac mark being to the left of the insignia another with the tac to the top or to the right.

So, if your helmet was supposed to be tac marked to say the left then, on one side of your helmet it would be to the rear and on the other it would be toward the front but, both sides would show a LEFT side tac mark.


"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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Helmet has sat at $760 since Friday. Still 21 bids. Up to 121 watchers though with 2 days and 14 hours left.  Seems like the prolific bidder scared some people off? 

Don't think this was discussed but the description states "A beautiful WW2 front seam fixed bail #1490 or 1400 stamped inside front of helmet." Heat stamp of 1490 or 1400 seems pretty late? Especially as it is a fixed loop helmet. I guess maybe the seller got the description wrong? The 1 might be a letter?

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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