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Black Lining in WW1 AEF Jackets


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Hello,

I have a question about the use of Black Lining in WW1 AEF jackets. I'm wondering how common it was a at what point in the war were they used? It seems like they come up most on the M1917 pattern coats. Did they use black linings just because of shortages of Olive Drab colored ones? Were they unique to a single manufacturer? How common are they and other linings? Did they show up on earlier M1911 Pattern coats and later M1918? Just looking for all the information I can get on these linings!

Thanks

Hunt

I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

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Hello Hunt,

I have only seen a black lining on 1917 pattern coats. I have seen several over the years but I don’t know if they are particularly “rare”. Of the three I presently own, one is sans label, one is marked Siegel Bros and Goodman and the other looks like Bernbaum. Hope this helps a bit...

TR

In Memoriam

My Father, Henry W. Milton, USAAF, Burma, 1943-1945, Lost May 2, 2017
My Grandfather, Nathan Hale, US Navy, USS Rhode Island, 1915-1918, Lost 1968
My 3X Great Grandfather, Sgt. Frederick Hale, 55th New York,
wounded and captured at Malvern Hill, Virginia, July 1, 1862,

died as Prisoner of War, Richmond, July 24, 1862

 

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If I can get to it I'll check mine.

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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Alright thanks guys. First and foremost, are there any variations in these linings? Just wondering if there is any way to tell if it is something that has been manufactured/tailored post war or actually used during the war years. It seems though that these are in fact WW1 era coats?

Thanks for the help!
Hunt

I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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My guy was in the 68th Regiment.

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


donation2011.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2019.gif

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I'm guessing the black lining coats were evenly dispersed with all the other patterns and variations. The salvage service is an interesting theory, but it seems for the most part, the coats I have seen don't have any signs of repair. As well as, some of these coats have a manufacturer's tag sewn onto the black lining leading me to believe it was a manufacturers variation. 

On the only other two threads I could see it mentioned: 

This thread shows a 30th ID jacket with overseas service. 

In this thread, member "Gil Sanow" says this on the black lining when displaying a 37th ID jacket from his collection with the lining in question: 

"The example cited above in my collection has another interesting difference too. The lining is black cotton rather than the common olive drab. In all likelihood the contractor could not obtain olive drab and substituted black. The contractors tag is attached to the black lining, so it is not a tailor-made replacement lining.

Another AAMUC member and militaria dealer, when shown the above coat, commented that non-standard linings are not all that uncommon. He’d encountered them in other colors and with woven patterns, even stripes. Whether these still had contractor’s tags still in place, he could not be sure. Possibly these were tailor-made replacements."

I think there is a good likelihood for the theory of black lining being a manufacturers variation. Although as TrenchRat said in this thread, it seems like there were multiple manufacturers that had this variation. 

Garandomatic, if possible could you say who the manufacturer of your coat with the black lining is? And if any other member could comment the manufacturers of their black lined coats. 

 

world war I nerd's great thread on AEF Service Coats used in WW1 (which I think should be pinned with a lot of his other threads) does mention how there were large Olive Drab wool shortages, as well as clothing shortages, in early days of the US involvement in WW1. My guess would be that this is where the black linings come in. Perhaps in an interest to preserve the small stocks of OD material, manufacturers started lining coats with black cotton lining. With it just being a lining, it wouldn't affect the specifications for the coat to be of OD color.

It would explain the sewing being professional as mentioned by wyatt265 in this thread. As well as the time period and model on which the black lining is found (1917 pattern coat). The shortages of 1917 would have been around the same time as the new 1917 pattern coat was being manufactured. And as the dire shortages started to subside in 1918, the black lining was no longer required for the new 1918 pattern coats, hence why it is only found on 1917 patterns. 

This would obviously date black lined coats to 1917/1918 as it would coincide with production of 1917 coats. 

It's just a theory, but I think the evidence lines up pretty well. I'm not 100% sure on the cause of black lining being used, but I think its safe to say the dating is correct until a 1918 pattern coat with black lining is found, or an earlier model then the 1917 pattern.

Would like to hear some other opinions on this.

Hunt

I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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I'll try to get into it and see.  I'm working on the war room at the moment and have a bum shoulder from surgery, and that jacket is the one on my WWI torso mannequin.

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


donation2011.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2019.gif

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Over the years I've owned a couple of "black-lining" service coats - one the ones I still have is a US Third Army, 51st Pioneer Infantry Regiment coat with no manufacturers info--and I don't mean to muddy the waters on this thread but have you encountered some of the other strange material used to  make linings or pockets? 

 

attached is a picture of the lining of a  pocket from an MTC coat in the Third Army---are these guys clowns? What are they doing?   Another pocket on the same pair of trousers has a bunch of different product names---very strange stuff...

Inside pocket.JPG

AFB
"When in doubt, Go cyclical"

 

For more information on

"In a Strange Land: The American Occupation of Germany 1918-1923"

"Let's Go! The History of the 29th Infantry Division"

"To Hell with the Kaiser: America Prepares for War 1916-1918 Volumes 1 and 2"

"Desert Uniforms, Patches, and Insignia of the US Armed Forces"

"Forgotten Soldiers of WWI: America's Immigrant Doughboys"

"Play Ball! Doughboys and Baseball During the Great War"

go to

https://www.amazon.com/author/alexanderf.barnes

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1 hour ago, CW4AFB said:

Over the years I've owned a couple of "black-lining" service coats - one the ones I still have is a US Third Army, 51st Pioneer Infantry Regiment coat with no manufacturers info--and I don't mean to muddy the waters on this thread but have you encountered some of the other strange material used to  make linings or pockets? 

 

attached is a picture of the lining of a  pocket from an MTC coat in the Third Army---are these guys clowns? What are they doing?   Another pocket on the same pair of trousers has a bunch of different product names---very strange stuff...

Inside pocket.JPG

That is a very interesting lining! I have seen some other interesting linings, mostly striped ones that look kinda like bedsheets/pillow sheets. I guess it would be a good idea to make a list of known linings?

I guess in order of most commonly seen I know of:
OD Lining (standard manufacturers)

Black Lining

White with Stripes lining

Clown? Lining

 

Would love to hear about some more interesting lining!
Hunt

I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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and add this oddity to the "Lining list"   from a 1st Chemical Regiment soldier comes this pair of trousers in which the front pockets have been extended using  coin bags from a bank--- these are not some "field repair" add-ons--they are very carefully added and machined double stitched---I don't know which is weirder, the clown pockets or the money bag pockets...
 

money pocket lining.JPG

AFB
"When in doubt, Go cyclical"

 

For more information on

"In a Strange Land: The American Occupation of Germany 1918-1923"

"Let's Go! The History of the 29th Infantry Division"

"To Hell with the Kaiser: America Prepares for War 1916-1918 Volumes 1 and 2"

"Desert Uniforms, Patches, and Insignia of the US Armed Forces"

"Forgotten Soldiers of WWI: America's Immigrant Doughboys"

"Play Ball! Doughboys and Baseball During the Great War"

go to

https://www.amazon.com/author/alexanderf.barnes

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Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, CW4AFB said:

and add this oddity to the "Lining list"   from a 1st Chemical Regiment soldier comes this pair of trousers in which the front pockets have been extended using  coin bags from a bank--- these are not some "field repair" add-ons--they are very carefully added and machined double stitched---I don't know which is weirder, the clown pockets or the money bag pockets...
 

money pocket lining.JPG

 

Wow Nice! Those are really cool! I wonder if it is depression era done? 

Lining List: 
Olive Drab

Black silk/fabric

White with stripes -- (Blue, Red?)

Coin Bag Pockets

Clown?

I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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