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502nd Pocket Patch Review


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Boy I see what you mean as I have been doing side by side comparisons with at least four known examples and this one although very close is slightly different.  The four known examples as best I can explain are rougher looking and not as well embroidered as this piece if that makes any sense.  The skull on the front looks a little more elongated and the key difference is the mesh backing material on the back which is much looser on the originals.  If this isn't genuine then it is a scary copy.  As many of you know the US made versions of this patch came in two sizes during WW2.  This is the smaller of the two which you can tell by the chute which has thick panel outlines while the larger one lacks these outlines.  Here are photos of what I feel are four different WW2 era smaller size US made 502nd PIR patches:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

502 A1.jpg

502 A1a.jpg

502 SSI.jpg

502 SSIa.jpg

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Looks like a fake to me, skull seems off. And the backing seems wrong. Maybe a reunion piece from the 70s. I’m sure in hand it won’t feel right either. 

Check out my eBay page, I sell military insignia and just about anything else I come across

Link: https://www.ebay.com/sch/fitzkeemilitaria/m.html?item=223497878518&hash=item340982fbf6%3Ag%3ASs4AAOSw-llcxhqe&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

 

Please check out my web page as well for more items for sale

 

https://fitzkeemilitaria.com/

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Backing material looks a bit to tight and the stitching reminds me of computer guided/modern sewn

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Also the seller typically will price a rare patch accordingly so why start this one out lower than a real example if he is selling as real ? 

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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11 hours ago, Tonomachi said:

Boy I see what you mean as I have been doing side by side comparisons with at least four known examples and this one although very close is slightly different.  The four known examples as best I can explain are rougher looking and not as well embroidered as this piece if that makes any sense.  The skull on the front looks a little more elongated and the key difference is the mesh backing material on the back which is much looser on the originals.  If this isn't genuine then it is a scary copy.  As many of you know the US made versions of this patch came in two sizes during WW2.  This is the smaller of the two which you can tell by the chute which has thick panel outlines while the larger one lacks these outlines.  Here are photos of what I feel are four different WW2 era smaller size US made 502nd PIR patches.

Thank you for posting all of these original variations for comparison. This one certainly is a scary repro but the details become obvious once you compare it to well known variations.

10 hours ago, doyler said:

Backing material looks a bit to tight and the stitching reminds me of computer guided/modern sewn

This is exactly what I was thinking as well.

8 hours ago, doyler said:

Also the seller typically will price a rare patch accordingly so why start this one out lower than a real example if he is selling as real ? 

It seems like the seller is listing some patches in Auction style listings instead of Buy It Nows. I believe he is a member of this forum so I'll shoot him a link to this thread via ebay. Hopefully it will save someone from making a big mistake since the patch is already up to $255.

 

Thank you everyone that responded!

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In Memory of Pvt. Donald A Sullivan (504th PIR) KIA Anzio 2/9/44 (20 Years Old)

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I sent a link to this thread to the seller and he still believes it is a original patch since it passes the glow & burn test. But I do agree with what he told me, "Opinions are just that, opinions." Good luck to those that are thinking about bidding, now I can only suggest you compare this one to other known original patterns.

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In Memory of Pvt. Donald A Sullivan (504th PIR) KIA Anzio 2/9/44 (20 Years Old)

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I have a real 502nd and I saw this one and I would NOT want this one in my collection for all the reasons stated. The opinions of those posted here who posted images and would also not want it: Those are the people I would listen to now if I had a bid on that patch [which I wouldn't] - burn test or not- or UV I would leave that patch on ebay and go the other way. 

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Something else that seems  a little strange  is how poorly the ruler is positioned making it more difficult to get an accurate diameter. 

It looks to be 4.25” or larger.

The one he sold was 4”.

I am not well versed on this particular pocket patch so I ask, is size significant? 

 

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15 minutes ago, manayunkman said:

I am not well versed on this particular pocket patch so I ask, is size significant? 

I believe I read that the larger 4" patches are rarer so more expensive than their 3.5" counterparts.

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In Memory of Pvt. Donald A Sullivan (504th PIR) KIA Anzio 2/9/44 (20 Years Old)

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Seller is well known and knows this field and is an honest seller. We all make mistakes and this one may have fooled the seller,time will tell.. What I noticed besides the skull differences ,etc was the difference in the width of the red and white rings around the patch. In the normally accepted versions these rings are equal in width, while with the one in question the white ring is wider than the red. 

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This is my larger 502, 4.25”. I have the smaller one, too, which measures 3.5”.

 

 

AA0CB10B-A543-40F2-BB94-B17FD0105001.jpeg

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Member:

ASMIC

OVMS

Primary interests:

The United States Army in WWII

The United States Army in Vietnam
 

My YouTube patch channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxXvNiUvwbB-e4i0gl-RrFA

 

WANTED:

WWII:

551st PIB pocket and shoulder patches

504th PIR real deal pocket patch 

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I've purchased original items from this seller in the past & its certainly true people cannot know everything in our hobby. The seller / member of our forum is aware of this thread since I messaged him via eBay but he is still convinced his patch is original. I'll let him decide on how to handle his sale currently at $255 and I'll let potential bidders decide if they want to bid. My intention is to learn potential fakes from originals, not to drag anyone's reputation through the mud. 

Mort, great observation about the varying widths of the border rings, I hadn't noticed that.

Pictured is a pocket patch that looks similar to the patch in question. This one sold for $20 on ebay. Link to sale.

 

s-l1600 (4).jpg

s-l1600 (3).jpg

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In Memory of Pvt. Donald A Sullivan (504th PIR) KIA Anzio 2/9/44 (20 Years Old)

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13 minutes ago, John4022 said:

I've purchased original items from this seller in the past & its certainly true people cannot know everything in our hobby. The seller / member of our forum is aware of this thread since I messaged him via eBay but he is still convinced his patch is original. I'll let him decide on how to handle his sale currently at $255 and I'll let potential bidders decide if they want to bid. My intention is to learn potential fakes from originals, not to drag anyone's reputation through the mud. 

Mort, great observation about the varying widths of the border rings, I hadn't noticed that.

Pictured is a pocket patch that looks similar to the patch in question. This one sold for $20 on ebay. Link to sale.

 

s-l1600 (4).jpg

s-l1600 (3).jpg

It’s the same patch, if you look at the threads on the back it’s identical. Patch was clearly sold as a repro. 

Check out my eBay page, I sell military insignia and just about anything else I come across

Link: https://www.ebay.com/sch/fitzkeemilitaria/m.html?item=223497878518&hash=item340982fbf6%3Ag%3ASs4AAOSw-llcxhqe&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

 

Please check out my web page as well for more items for sale

 

https://fitzkeemilitaria.com/

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I just noticed the listing was ended, props to the seller ?

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In Memory of Pvt. Donald A Sullivan (504th PIR) KIA Anzio 2/9/44 (20 Years Old)

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As Mort stated we all make mistakes because we are human.If I were to pile up all the ones I screwed up on you would need a small Semi to haul them away.Mort good eye on the Borders.Scotty

 

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Is the fake patch that sold for $20 the exact same patch that started this thread?

To me they look exactly the same.

Where does this fake patch come from and are there more for sale for $20 each?

Or was this fake a one time sale?

If not do all the fakes have the same characteristics or is this one unique.

Since the reseller of the alleged fake patch is a forum member maybe they can tell us how they got it?

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4 hours ago, manayunkman said:

Is the fake patch that sold for $20 the exact same patch that started this thread?

To me they look exactly the same.

Where does this fake patch come from and are there more for sale for $20 each?

Or was this fake a one time sale?

If not do all the fakes have the same characteristics or is this one unique.

Since the reseller of the alleged fake patch is a forum member maybe they can tell us how they got it?

Absolutely NOT!!  see >>>>>> 

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-Army-502nd-Parachute-Infantry-Regiment-Patch-PIR-Airborne-Skull-WW2/184201520860?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/str/worldwarpatches

If you can't stand behind our troops stand in front of them!

https://www.worldwarpatches.com

 

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Lets get this straight!! 

Yes it appears the seller I bought it from that listed it as original had just bought it listed a reproduction.

Shame on me for not catching it as a repo.

But do not suggest that I bought is as a repo and tried to pass it off as real. 

I paid 250.00  for it and it was listed as original. No I did not buy the $20.00 patch, nor did I see it.

https://www.ebay.com/str/worldwarpatches

If you can't stand behind our troops stand in front of them!

https://www.worldwarpatches.com

 

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