VF-6 NAVY CROSS GROUP OPINIONS

[bulldog06]

It is possible that the ring suspension on the American Defense Service Medal is a correct Navy issue.

In Steve Carr and Allen Menke's JOMSA article (Jan-Feb 2010), they state that the US Mint was one of three producers of the ring or "wire loop" suspension medals and that the Navy contracted for ADSMs with the US Mint. Possibly some of the Navy medals from the US Mint had the "wire loop".

Medallic Art and American Emblem Cos also made wire loop medals and are mentioned as primarily supplying the Army. However, from the article:

"D.L. Auld, Medallic Arts, and Rex Company medals were generally issued to Army personnel while Mint medals were issued primarily to the Navy. This was not a fast rule, however, as the Navy used Army stock on at least one occasion."

Allen Menke did much of the work on Medal Data with Al Gleim and worked on the New Medal Letter Medal Data. His work and expertise are widely accepted as definitive. Based on their article, it is hard to say if any ADSM is correct for a grouping.

Bulldog06

[KASTAUFFER]

27 minutes ago, bulldog06 said:

It is possible that the ring suspension on the American Defense Service Medal is a correct Navy issue.

In Steve Carr and Allen Menke's JOMSA article (Jan-Feb 2010), they state that the US Mint was one of three producers of the ring or "wire loop" suspension medals and that the Navy contracted for ADSMs with the US Mint. Possibly some of the Navy medals from the US Mint had the "wire loop".

Medallic Art and American Emblem Cos also made wire loop medals and are mentioned as primarily supplying the Army. However, from the article:

"D.L. Auld, Medallic Arts, and Rex Company medals were generally issued to Army personnel while Mint medals were issued primarily to the Navy. This was not a fast rule, however, as the Navy used Army stock on at least one occasion."

Allen Menke did much of the work on Medal Data with Al Gleim and worked on the New Medal Letter Medal Data. His work and expertise are widely accepted as definitive. Based on their article, it is hard to say if any ADSM is correct for a grouping.

Bulldog06

 

Its always possible. I just have never found a WWII USN group , that I got from a family or out of an estate with a ring top American Defense medal in the white US Mint box.  I have found a number of Army groups out of the woodwork with a ring top American Defense. 

 

Kurt

[Wharfmaster]

16 minutes ago, KASTAUFFER said:

 

Its always possible. I just have never found a WWII USN group , that I got from a family or out of an estate with a ring top American Defense medal in the white US Mint box.  I have found a number of Army groups out of the woodwork with a ring top American Defense. 

 

Kurt

Exactly.

[Dave]

Whatever the story is on the group (I personally think it's put together) I'm guessing it sold for more than it's final bid...

[KASTAUFFER]

2 hours ago, Dave said:

Whatever the story is on the group (I personally think it's put together) I'm guessing it sold for more than it's final bid...

It sold for $1850 on the FB " make an offer" site after it sold on Ebay,  Considering what people have payed for Black Widow's lately, that seems like a fair price. 

Im not sure what to think about that patch, 

Kurt

[collector]

another example of medal top

[Matt-M]

I have found that late/post war bar mounted medal groups on average have the knob type top on the AmDef medal. And early awarded AmDef groupings contain the ring top variety. That goes for China Service and Naval Reserve medal as well.

[MMcollector]

One thing to keep in mind is that a U.S. mint ring top American Defense medal would have the cut planchette ring at the 3-4 o’clock position.  I have read the article & viewed the picture of the 5 o-o’clock opening mentioned above and I still have my doubts that the Mint ever made a ring top American Defense medal.  IMO the American Defense Medals with a ring top are all AE Utica contracts. If the cut in the planchette ring is present, it’s because it was welded accidentally in this position.  Not on purpose like all other US Mint contract pieces from 1908-1946.  Nobody has been able to produce a picture of a US Mint AD in a white box with a proper cut ring at 3-4 o’clock. All photos are just of the supposed medal type in a mounted group.  How often do we see Army Medals in Navy racks and vise versa.  
 

On 4/27/2020 at 8:22 AM, bulldog06 said:

It is possible that the ring suspension on the American Defense Service Medal is a correct Navy issue.

In Steve Carr and Allen Menke's JOMSA article (Jan-Feb 2010), they state that the US Mint was one of three producers of the ring or "wire loop" suspension medals and that the Navy contracted for ADSMs with the US Mint. Possibly some of the Navy medals from the US Mint had the "wire loop".

Medallic Art and American Emblem Cos also made wire loop medals and are mentioned as primarily supplying the Army. However, from the article:

"D.L. Auld, Medallic Arts, and Rex Company medals were generally issued to Army personnel while Mint medals were issued primarily to the Navy. This was not a fast rule, however, as the Navy used Army stock on at least one occasion."

Allen Menke did much of the work on Medal Data with Al Gleim and worked on the New Medal Letter Medal Data. His work and expertise are widely accepted as definitive. Based on their article, it is hard to say if any ADSM is correct for a grouping.

Bulldog06

 

[MMcollector]

Here is a AD with a ring top cut at the 5 o’clock position, same exact type as in the article. Notice the cut ring is at and angle? US mint cuts are straight into the ring. Also the bonding material is black in color.  All US mint medals were bonded together at the planchette ring with a silver colored solder. I have never seen black bonding/solder material on any other US mint medal.  Earlier Naval campaign medals being produced at the same time as by the U.S. mint do not fit the profile of these ringtop’s.  
 

[MMcollector]

The article/picture:

[Matt-M]

Excellent information. Thank you! In my experiences, it seems as if the Navy and Marine Corps used up their inventory of medals until they ran out and then began using Army contract issued medals, as I have had more than a few "out of the woodwork" late WW2 / Korean War  USN/USMC groupings that contained Army DFC's and/or Air Medals. And, I have, on rarer occasions, found a USN/USMC DFC planchette on a slot brooch in an Army Air Corps grouping, but to date, never a USN/USMC Air Medal in an Army Air Corps grouping. Would like to hear from other members if they have found the same, or not.

[Dave]

Well, if anyone has heartburn over missing it on eBay, then Facebook, it's now up for auction with Centurion Auctions...

[jeffs1130]

Yikes!  

[manayunkman]

Very informative thread.

[Willy1690]

Painstakingly put together.