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VF-6 NAVY CROSS GROUP OPINIONS

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This showed up briefly on EBay recently. I recently posted this on the forum Facebook site, but I wanted to also post it here for opinions. What are your thoughts about the group? Is this a Black Widow Navy Cross? Has anyone ever seen a nutcracker like this from the USS Enterprise?

 

This would be a great Big E group if it were legitimate.

 

The seller described the lot as: These items are in used, aged condition. I have no name or information on the navy pilot these items belonged too, dog tags were missing from the neck cord when I acquired all these items. All the medals have no numbers or name on them. Medals, pins and insignia's show some signs of age wear and green patina spots and oxidation discoloring. The leather squadron patch is aged and has surface cracking. The Remington Hunting (PAL RH) Model 36 survival fighting knife is lightly stamped on the blade and hard to read, "RH PAL 36". The blade is 6" and sharp. The leather scabbard is aged and soiled and a little dry in some areas. The Ladies Legs nut cracker looks like it is made out of aluminum, it is etched on the front in red "1942 BIG 'E' " and on the back "USS ENTERPRISE CV-6". The 1934 Liberty Peace silver dollar is aged and tarnished. There is a 1930's Saint Christoper medallion on the dog tag cord. The dated 1943 USN 20mm Oerlikon loading is inert and the dark green top is removable. All items are being sold in as is condition. Any white spots on the items in the pictures are caused by glare from the camera.

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Rocco C. DeCamillo

 

Currently Seeking:

WWII US Typhus Commission Medal Titled case or a sett

WWI era Navy Cross

WWII Presidential Medal for Merit titled case

Early button type Navy Cross & Army DSM Rosette lapel button

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Medals....

post-8847-0-14594000-1587367665_thumb.jpeg


Rocco C. DeCamillo

 

Currently Seeking:

WWII US Typhus Commission Medal Titled case or a sett

WWI era Navy Cross

WWII Presidential Medal for Merit titled case

Early button type Navy Cross & Army DSM Rosette lapel button

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Medals reverse...

post-8847-0-36211000-1587367731_thumb.jpeg

post-8847-0-24601700-1587367744_thumb.jpeg


Rocco C. DeCamillo

 

Currently Seeking:

WWII US Typhus Commission Medal Titled case or a sett

WWI era Navy Cross

WWII Presidential Medal for Merit titled case

Early button type Navy Cross & Army DSM Rosette lapel button

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Insignia...

post-8847-0-89853900-1587367792_thumb.jpeg


Rocco C. DeCamillo

 

Currently Seeking:

WWII US Typhus Commission Medal Titled case or a sett

WWI era Navy Cross

WWII Presidential Medal for Merit titled case

Early button type Navy Cross & Army DSM Rosette lapel button

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Nutcracker....

post-8847-0-22162800-1587367857_thumb.jpeg


Rocco C. DeCamillo

 

Currently Seeking:

WWII US Typhus Commission Medal Titled case or a sett

WWI era Navy Cross

WWII Presidential Medal for Merit titled case

Early button type Navy Cross & Army DSM Rosette lapel button

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Reverse.....

post-8847-0-53524400-1587367912_thumb.jpeg

post-8847-0-38320100-1587367932_thumb.jpeg


Rocco C. DeCamillo

 

Currently Seeking:

WWII US Typhus Commission Medal Titled case or a sett

WWI era Navy Cross

WWII Presidential Medal for Merit titled case

Early button type Navy Cross & Army DSM Rosette lapel button

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More...

post-8847-0-17671900-1587368012_thumb.jpeg


Rocco C. DeCamillo

 

Currently Seeking:

WWII US Typhus Commission Medal Titled case or a sett

WWI era Navy Cross

WWII Presidential Medal for Merit titled case

Early button type Navy Cross & Army DSM Rosette lapel button

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VF-6 patch....

post-8847-0-92196700-1587368167_thumb.jpeg


Rocco C. DeCamillo

 

Currently Seeking:

WWII US Typhus Commission Medal Titled case or a sett

WWI era Navy Cross

WWII Presidential Medal for Merit titled case

Early button type Navy Cross & Army DSM Rosette lapel button

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I saw this one too shortly after it was listed, and right away had a bid. I also placed a bid too, but it wasnt long after that that I got a bid cancellation notice and the lot was relisted. I also thought the Navy Cross might be a black widow. The nutcracker is really cool too.


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Looks really good to me and even without ID, there is substantial value in the items.


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I dont like the fact there is a ring top American Defense medal with it. That an Army contract medal. While all the parts look original, the group feels "put together" to me.

 

Without actual provenance, its worth the sum of the parts.

 

Kurt


!!!! WANTED !!!!

WWII Prisoner of War items : Medals, Mail, Diaries, Photos, Documents, Scrapbooks + More

WWII Naval Aviation Groupings : Medals, Documents, Scrapbooks, Photos, Flight Logs, Flight Jackets + More

 


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Its hard to say the group looks right but at the same time its getting really tough to tell anymore! Either way you add up the sum of the parts and you have a lot of money there as others have said!


Please Remember the Following Service Members who have passed on!

 

Manley S Webb- 1925-2006 US Navy WW2

James W Boutilier - 1921-1983 US Navy Seabees WW2

Russell W Haight - 1876-1953 Spanish American War, Cuban Pacification, Mexican Border War NYNG

Lt Colonel William H Warren 1921-2014 USAF

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Did you lift the purple pad on the PH box to see if there is a document underneath it? I've been surprised before.

 

Kurt


!!!! WANTED !!!!

WWII Prisoner of War items : Medals, Mail, Diaries, Photos, Documents, Scrapbooks + More

WWII Naval Aviation Groupings : Medals, Documents, Scrapbooks, Photos, Flight Logs, Flight Jackets + More

 


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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I dont like the fact there is a ring top American Defense medal with it. That an Army contract medal. While all the parts look original, the group feels "put together" to me.

 

Without actual provenance, its worth the sum of the parts.

 

Kurt

 

Educate me please, a "ring top" American Defense. How does a Navy differer from an Army?


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I "primarily" collect Gulf War 1 patches. All branches (USA, USAF,USN, USMC & USCG) and ALL Countries..
US - Op.'s Desert Shield / Storm / Provide Comfort /Some Southern Watch - F-4G's Wild Weasels
UK - Op.'s Granby / Sabre / Warden
Canadian - Op. Desert Storm / Op. Friction
French - Daguet / Aconit
Netherlands, Belgium, Poland, South Korea, etc.
Looking for the oddities, including unfinished & flaws
I HAVE EXTRA's!! Will trade as well.

 

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Just a quick observation, not judging either way, but shouldn't there be a slight shine to the Black Widow Navy Cross and the ribbon looks new?


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Educate me please, a "ring top" American Defense. How does a Navy differer from an Army?

 

 

There is a server error right now with the forum in adding pics so I cant add a pic.

 

If you look at the planchette of the American Defense medal the suspension at the top is a soldiered ring. On every USN group I have owned where the medal is still in the white contract box, the suspension is a "blob top" , not a ring. If you look at other WWII campaign medals, they are all blob tops.

 

Kurt


!!!! WANTED !!!!

WWII Prisoner of War items : Medals, Mail, Diaries, Photos, Documents, Scrapbooks + More

WWII Naval Aviation Groupings : Medals, Documents, Scrapbooks, Photos, Flight Logs, Flight Jackets + More

 


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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Just a quick observation, not judging either way, but shouldn't there be a slight shine to the Black Widow Navy Cross and the ribbon looks new?

 

On Black Widow NC's sometimes they can take on a matte finish, especially one like this that appears to have been exposed to humidity, The ribbon and brooch ( also black ) look 100% correct to me for this medal. I dont have an issue with it.

 

People that fake these always get the brooch wrong, and basically "paint" the medal to make it black.

 

Kurt


!!!! WANTED !!!!

WWII Prisoner of War items : Medals, Mail, Diaries, Photos, Documents, Scrapbooks + More

WWII Naval Aviation Groupings : Medals, Documents, Scrapbooks, Photos, Flight Logs, Flight Jackets + More

 


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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It is a nice group but a real bummer theres not a name, yes a nice sum for just the parts. Did anyone on here end up getting it?

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Personally, I like the lot. Most early - mid war bar mounted USN groupings I've owned have had ring top medals (China Service, Reserve Medal, AM Def.), and be it Army contract or not, I've found more ring top AM Def medals in Navy groupings, than any other branch of service. If it is an assembled from parts grouping, they were clever enough to not include an AM. Early on, you'll see that Air Medals were not always given out or awarded. As far as the patch goes, of what I know, VF-6 patches were only made aboard ship and hand painted. While the design is not the typical design, the hand that painted it was skilled. My experience with NC construction of black widows is limited, but again, if the lot was put together, they really knew what they were doing as far as recreating an early war fighter pilot NC grouping.

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My opinion is that if this group had been put together there would be a name attached to it.

 

I feel that there is no point in putting a group like this together.

 

It doesn’t increase the value but lower it.

 

I think that most people who would go after this group would hope to get a discount.

 

Can anyone research the possible recipients?

 

Shouldn’t be too hard to narrow it down.

 

That would tie it together at least.


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I would say that putting a NC group together with a squadron patch from an early famous squadron would be more than enough reason to assemble a group such as this. Almost as good as having a name as there would be a limited number of NC recipients to this squadron. The thing I do not like about the patch is the uneven stitching holes around the edge and the over distressed look of the patch. Riggers were more adept at sewing than this pattern would suggest.

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The patch doesn’t bother me.

 

I just think that it would sell for more split up.


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Assembling a group to represent and early NC recipient from VF-6 is reason enough to put something like this together. I'm sure the number of NC recipients in this squadron were limited and therefore, one could draw the conclusion that "it's one these guys", so I could totally see someone putting pieces together to dupe someone in this manner. The nutcracker is the only thing that I see in the lot that is unique and would be the hardest to replicate or produce. The patch, while well done, has an erratic stitch hole pattern that would suggest either a sewing machine out of adjustment, a somewhat intoxicated rigger back from shore leave, or a fake. An old fake, but fake. That being said, it's still a nice assemblage of items, whether it be from one person or assembled. Buy as parts with a 50/50 on the patch and you should be fine.

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My apologies for the dual posting. I'm having a serious delay on my end, most likely has to do with the site being under construction.

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