Jump to content

History of the 1911A1 and the US Navy


avigo
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just curious how often the 1911 was carried by the US Navy in the past. And if it was, were they "US Army" marked guns that were just Navy contracts, or were there any US Navy marked 1911s? And were US Army marked 1911s every counter-marked with us navy labels?

Would love to see any examples of this.

 

Working on a project and just curious.

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

everforward

Prior to WW1 there were smaller contracts of Pistols specifically marked ‘MODEL OF 1911 U.S. NAVY’.....they have always been quite desirable. After that, you would need to know what serial number ranges went to the Navy to verify. Most if not all of the Colt M1911A1 pistols in 1939 went to the Navy. In WW2 many of the contract pistols also went to the Navy but it was more from a procurement standpoint than the Navy actually contracting for them. I had an Ithaca M1911A1 that was in a range pistols routed thru the Naval Supply Depot in Oakland, then to Guam from there and issued to a Marine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was in the USN Seabees late 80 early 90s and were issues US Army Marked M1911 and M1911A1. We did have one US Navy marked slide but that was a coincidence. Navy used US Army marked M1911 starting in WW1 and 1911A1 US Army marked pistols from 1939 up thru the early 1990

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As soon as the M1911 was adopted the Navy asked for slides to be roll-marked PROPERTY OF US NAVY. However, it cost them an extra $1.50/pistol so they stopped after 15,037 units (March 1915). BTW, there were 0 guns marked for the USMC, although old books refer to such slides and unscrupulous sellers have created some to satisfy the demand for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys!

 

Were any the Navy guns (after the early marked ones were done) marked in any other way to denote they were for the Navy? Like just some kind of label/sticker/stenciling etc? Curious if there were any guns (on ships or somewhere else maybe) that would have been marked as Navy (even though they were Army marked guns)

 

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every once in a while a pistol will show up with DEL stamped on it for the USS Delaware. But, for the most part you have to go by the serial number charts to know what ranges went to the Navy or USMC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

This gun is on display at the Moffett Field Museum in Mountain View CA. I saw it there last fall.

Sorry the picture isn't better but the gun is in a glass case. 

Other than what is marked, I have no other information about it.  Whenever things open back up, I plan to go back and see the museum again.  I'll see if I can find more information on it then. 

Mikie

 

205295976_USSAZ1911.jpg.ec97cde299229161772534d17bd3707c.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...

Who onboard a vessel was issued a 1911A1? Deck officers? Gunnery officer? Commander? Highest ranking deck officer? All of the above? Can't seem to find any real answers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

collectsmedals
4 hours ago, prmccoy said:

Who onboard a vessel was issued a 1911A1? Deck officers? Gunnery officer? Commander? Highest ranking deck officer? All of the above? Can't seem to find any real answers.

I am not sure who was issued sidearms. I was in Reactor Department on U.S.S. Nimitz, and they were smart enough not to let  us anywhere near weapons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, prmccoy said:

Who onboard a vessel was issued a 1911A1? Deck officers? Gunnery officer? Commander? Highest ranking deck officer? All of the above? Can't seem to find any real answers.

 

Weapons were kept and issued out of the ship's armory. This has been a tradition since the days of sail, when swords and other sidearms would be issued from a specific location. The tradition continues today, and ensures accountability and security for the weapons (and for the crew as well...) 

 

Prior to taking a watch that requires carrying a weapon, the watchstanders will report to the armory, sign out a weapon, and then following the end of their watch, return the weapon to the armory. There is a duty armorer (could be a gunner's mate or any other qualified watchstander) who carries the keys for the armory as well as other weapon storage areas, such as rapid response lockers and so on. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was told by a former neighbor years ago who was a salvage diver serving on the USS Rigel at Pearl Harbor who did salvage dives on the Arizona bringing up all kinds of artifacts, possessions, and occasional bodies that 2 of his fellow divers were courtmartialed for selling 45's from the Arizona's Armory (that were salvaged) to civilians.

 

Not sure if it was true but it did sound plausible.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kurt Barickman
2 hours ago, Dave said:

 

Weapons were kept and issued out of the ship's armory. This has been a tradition since the days of sail, when swords and other sidearms would be issued from a specific location. The tradition continues today, and ensures accountability and security for the weapons (and for the crew as well...) 

 

Prior to taking a watch that requires carrying a weapon, the watchstanders will report to the armory, sign out a weapon, and then following the end of their watch, return the weapon to the armory. There is a duty armorer (could be a gunner's mate or any other qualified watchstander) who carries the keys for the armory as well as other weapon storage areas, such as rapid response lockers and so on. 

Yes, Gunners Mates run the armory from where  the .45s  are signed out for roaming patrols, OOD, etc.  Also several several other places on board where a handful of small arms are stored in case the armory was compromised. As Dave stated, nobody had as their personal sidearm to carry at all times during peacetime which would be the case here as the US was not at war yet. My two cents.

 

Kurt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Kurt Barickman said:

Yes, Gunners Mates run the armory from where  the .45s  are signed out for roaming patrols, OOD, etc.  Also several several other places on board where a handful of small arms are stored in case the armory was compromised. As Dave stated, nobody had as their personal sidearm to carry at all times during peacetime which would be the case here as the US was not at war yet. My two cents.

 

Kurt

Interesting. Why would a
Ltjg from war time (WW2) have  one he brought home? Albeit I am sure illegally. It was my grandfather who by deck logs was assistant gunnery. Of course no longer alive to ask.

Also, were seabeas and patrols generally issued a Mark 2 or was it by issue as needed as well?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Rooster

They are out there. But at a steep price.

 

Here is one thats for sale currently on line.

Only $8995.00

🤣

 

"Extremely rare US Navy Colt from its first year of production in 1912 on the 2nd Navy contract. As far as we can tell, this is a correct early Navy with all correct or at least early parts. The frame has the proper WPG inspection proof, and the slide is marked with the patent date of 1911 (not 1913), as well as the H proof. Rounded rear site, and most importantly it is marked US Navy. The gun has retained roughly 60% of its original finish. There are areas of spotty wear and discoloration throughout. Areas of spotty oxidation along the slide and on the grip straps. Minor pitting along the slide. Fitted with slightly worn period-correct wood grips. Comes with a proper two-magazine with lanyard loop. The bore has pretty good rifling, but there is minor pitting in the grooves."

 

The same seller carries a 1939A1 Model for over 11 grand !

 

2023-08-02_378.jpg

2023-08-02_388.jpg

2023-08-02_380.jpg

2023-08-02_383.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kurt Barickman
2 hours ago, prmccoy said:

Interesting. Why would a
Ltjg from war time (WW2) have  one he brought home? Albeit I am sure illegally. It was my grandfather who by deck logs was assistant gunnery. Of course no longer alive to ask.

Also, were seabeas and patrols generally issued a Mark 2 or was it by issue as needed as well?

Wartime are/were different circumstances...even when the Co or XO wanted to shoot flying fish off the bridge wings they had to have a GM sign out out for them and bring it up from the armory...Circa 1982??

 

Kurt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, The Rooster said:

They are out there. But at a steep price.

 

Here is one thats for sale currently on line.

Only $8995.00

🤣

 

"Extremely rare US Navy Colt from its first year of production in 1912 on the 2nd Navy contract. As far as we can tell, this is a correct early Navy with all correct or at least early parts. The frame has the proper WPG inspection proof, and the slide is marked with the patent date of 1911 (not 1913), as well as the H proof. Rounded rear site, and most importantly it is marked US Navy. The gun has retained roughly 60% of its original finish. There are areas of spotty wear and discoloration throughout. Areas of spotty oxidation along the slide and on the grip straps. Minor pitting along the slide. Fitted with slightly worn period-correct wood grips. Comes with a proper two-magazine with lanyard loop. The bore has pretty good rifling, but there is minor pitting in the grooves."

 

The same seller carries a 1939A1 Model for over 11 grand !

 

2023-08-02_378.jpg

2023-08-02_388.jpg

2023-08-02_380.jpg

2023-08-02_383.jpg

My grandfather who lived in Bay Village, OH at the time turned his in to the Bay Village PD. I guess he had a guilty conscience? That pistol lasted 30 seconds I’m sure before a Sergeant or Lieutenant commandeered it. My uncles had no clue about it until my mother told them about it. Needless to say they were furious about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...