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Another KIA PH for Review


ErwinRommel1940
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ErwinRommel1940

Hello all,

 

Here is another named KIA PH for review, officially engraved in small capital letters. I have been able to find some information. I have found him in the roll of WW2 war dead, a gravestone and a picture. For some reason, I can't find an enlistment record for him on Ancestry or NARA, which I thought was odd. I also found some information in a newspaper article where he has posthumously awarded a silver star. Allegedly, his citation for it can be found in GO #76 of the 34th ID. I have not been able to find the GO.

 

Thanks for the help in advance!

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Brian Dentino

I do not think that the engraving matches known examples of "official govt" engraving? At least not like any that I have ever seen anyway. Maybe Dave or Robert will chime in and tell me that I am wrong, but think this is privately done.

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ErwinRommel1940

Alrighty then...

 

It was sold to me as a KIA with "official small capital letter engraving", but thats beside the point. What do you think about it being a period private engraved? I did find records to several WIA guys with the same name...?

 

Thanks!

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Brian Dentino

Alrighty then...

 

It was sold to me as a KIA with "official small capital letter engraving", but thats beside the point. What do you think about it being a period private engraved? I did find records to several WIA guys with the same name...?

 

Thanks!

The problem with private engraving vs. official gov't engraving is that it is almost impossible to definitively say when it was done. A little easier to get a time frame reference with official engraving because it was pretty standard. The PH that Manay showed is an example that was common later in WWII commonly known as small machine engraving. With private engraving like the PH's you have been showing it is impossible to tell if they were done 70 years ago or 7 hours ago.

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Most likely to one of the WIA guys ? Hard to say when engraved ? Not officially engraved as others have said . Usually campaign and victory medals were not issued to next of kin of Army KIAs . I believe I saw this on sale ? Did it have a non engraved SS medal with it ? You might be able to track down the right WIA guy with these hints ? SS ETO WIA ?

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ErwinRommel1940

The problem with private engraving vs. official gov't engraving is that it is almost impossible to definitively say when it was done. A little easier to get a time frame reference with official engraving because it was pretty standard. The PH that Manay showed is an example that was common later in WWII commonly known as small machine engraving. With private engraving like the PH's you have been showing it is impossible to tell if they were done 70 years ago or 7 hours ago.

I see. So in order to be certain that you have a WW2 named medal, it needs to be a government engraved piece. I was told this was, but apparently its not. I can say that I have learned quite a few things that last couple of days, in more than one area.

 

With that being said, perhaps I should rephrase my question to: What is your best guess to the period of this engraving, if you can make one?

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Brian Dentino

I see. So in order to be certain that you have a WW2 named medal, it needs to be a government engraved piece. I was told this was, but apparently its not.

 

With that being said, perhaps I should rephrase my question to: What is your best guess to the period of this engraving, if you can make one?

Generally speaking, yes. To be sure it should be a KIA officially engraved style. These slot brooch PH's were still being issued into Vietnam and later from gov't stockpiles.

 

As for guessing on the engraving, sorry but no telling. Also, if this was the medal group from Floyd's medals I would have thought that the SS would have been officially engraved as well since it was a posthumous award. Either way, the private engraving is too tough to peg down on when it may have been done. Sorry, but I think this whole group is somewhat suspect and for the price you paid (if it is the one listed by Kadet) then I think I would see about trying to get my cash back for it but that is up to you if your happy with it or not.

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I don't know when you bought it but $400 bucks for that grouping, I would say you got hosed, grouping really looks put together. If it is real and infact attributed to the WIA guy which is still a push you got about $150 bucks maybe $200 max sum of the parts! I would be on the phone real quick if it was a recent purchase!

 

I would recommend that you do some research here on the forum, if you want to get into collecting PH's, SS's etc that are named its all about education. It seems from what you have posted that you just bought pieces for face value(what the seller told you) this is a good way to get completely hosed as there are a lot of fakes or suspect pieces on the market! Study up on engraving, numbering, styling and what to look for in correct sets before spending more hard earned money.

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ErwinRommel1940

I don't know when you bought it but $400 bucks for that grouping, I would say you got hosed, grouping really looks put together. If it is real and infact attributed to the WIA guy which is still a push you got about $150 bucks maybe $200 max sum of the parts! I would be on the phone real quick if it was a recent purchase!

 

I would recommend that you do some research here on the forum, if you want to get into collecting PH's, SS's etc that are named its all about education. It seems from what you have posted that you just bought pieces for face value(what the seller told you) this is a good way to get completely hosed as there are a lot of fakes or suspect pieces on the market! Study up on engraving, numbering, styling and what to look for in correct sets before spending more hard earned money.

Thank you for the comment. This is the reason I joined the forum, to learn. After reviewing what I have read, I felt that several of the items I had purchased were suspect. I have posted them as they were represented to me, not what I thought they may be. That way, I get receive unbiased comments about what I have.

 

This group is especially suspect, for more reasons than I had originally thought. I knew that the SS was incorrect, as it should have been named. You'll notice I asked this very question a few days ago. The naming on the PH also did not match, but I was unsure, hence why I posted here.

 

I appreciate your and everyone else's time and input. As a young collector (early 20's), I know that their is no substitute for experience. As you can see, I've learned quite a few lessons in a short period of time.

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Brian Dentino

Thank you for the comment. This is the reason I joined the forum, to learn. After reviewing what I have read, I felt that several of the items I had purchased were suspect. I have posted them as they were represented to me, not what I thought they may be. That way, I get receive unbiased comments about what I have.

 

This group is especially suspect, for more reasons than I had originally thought. I knew that the SS was incorrect, as it should have been named. You'll notice I asked this very question a few days ago. The naming on the PH also did not match, but I was unsure, hence why I posted here.

 

I appreciate your and everyone else's time and input. As a young collector (early 20's), I know that their is no substitute for experience. As you can see, I've learned quite a few lessons in a short period of time.

Don't feel too bad (I did for telling you first that this wasn't a good engraved PH). We have all been there at one point or another in our collecting time. Like Mariner said, take a look around the forum and do some homework. Sit on your hands so you can't grab your wallet until you are feeling educated enough to make an informed decision on an item, especially something that is going to set you back a few bills. When I was younger (20's also) I went out and bought anything and everything I could find/afford at the time trying to build my WWII German collection, only to find out hundreds of dollars and years later that a lot of what I had purchased as "represented" originals turned out to be outright fakes or at best post war Souval items worth 1/2 of what I paid. Take your time and study and learn, you will be much better off in the long run.

 

BTW, joining this forum was the best/cheapest favor you could have done yourself if you want to get into collecting US militaria. Lots of helpful and friendly people here. Also, buy from here if you want some nice named PH's or valor groups. They all are seen by many sets of eyes (and some VERY experienced collectors/dealers) so your chances of getting a good item for you money is much better that off the forum in the "world".

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