Jump to content

Opinions on this M1851 buckle


Recommended Posts

Looks good to me . Is the adjustment hook for sizing it made from flat stock or round .I don’t remember how I came this little bit of info so it may be wrong. The flat stock ones are war time and the round are post war. Also the width of the tongue indicates war time. Some plates are numbered to the keeper also. I think it’s a really nice rig , congratulations. Mike

donation2014.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Completely righteous. Nice natural patina and wear. Thanks for showing.

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Seeking Model 1895 and 1902 Named Officer coats as well as Spanish American War Tropical Uniforms.
Also pre WW2 marine uniforms. Always pre-1945 Colorado National Guard Items wanted! Also seeking Rhodesian

Uniforms and Gear used by Americans in the Rhodesian Security Forces during the Bush War (Africa).

 

Fortune cookie say: "An expert is someone that knows so much about so little."

Link to post
Share on other sites

After going thru Stan Philips book on dug relics. I now believe my previous post was wrong. Both flat and round adjusters were used during the war . See the attached photo of war time campsite dug relics. Again its a really nice rig. Mike.

 

post-137056-0-64294300-1586202614_thumb.jpeg

donation2014.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike,

 

thx so much for getting back and thx for the info -

The buckle just didn't have the definition in the casting as I have seen.

just wanted to be sure

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,

hello - thx for the comment -

 

what is the sign that this is a CW infantry belt?

 

what do you think is the best reference material or book or ? that i can used for these rigs?

 

did NCO or officers have belts made for them or were they issued?

 

thx for your help

mike

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike,

There are several books out there that include good material on accouterments, along with various articles and some specialized studies on specific things like Mann's accouterments by Fred Gaede. A good start is Todd's American Military Equipage. The first three volumes have been reprinted as one. But you will want to go to O'Donnell and Campbell for the ins and outs of the plates.

On this one you can see the hasp is retained by a single rivet. A cavalry, artillery or NCO belt will have it just stitched on or will have two rivets added to reinforce the stitching. On the other end the adjusting hook is taken from something else, likely a knapsack. On CW belts the adjusting hook is a single flat piece of brass, usually with a flaring triangular base riveted in place. After the war they used brass wire, so the hook is rounded in cross section. I think this was what skypilot was getting at. But the form on this one is not correct in either case. You can see they narrowed the end of the belt to wrap around it. On CW belts the end will taper, but the hook is riveted in place. The page that skypilot posted from Philips shows two such hooks from a knapsack (the right shoulder strap has a hook and triangle to make it easy to unsling the pack,) the next two are hooks like I am talking about, though the narrow bases suggest these are from shoulder support belt or rifle sling.

You can also see what is likely part of an inspector's stamp on the leather. I am guessing this is an infantry belt that has been reused. The leather and inspector's stamp look CW, but it is not a cavalry, artillery or NCO rig.

Officers purchased their own gear. The belts would not be made specifically for them, but were part of the general stock of military goods dealers. (I suppose one could a belt specially made.) NCOs would be issued their belts and plates, though they might get away with a privately purchased version. This would be more common with members of the NCO staff, though: sergeant majors, QM sergeants and the like.

I don't think there is any way to tell when that belt was put together. You could come up with various scenarios where a sergeant might have to cobble together a replacement belt, but it could be done a lot later. The photos are not good enough to guess the date of the rivet.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,

 

thx for taking your time for the detailed explanation and the books

I will pass on this belt as I want something a lot closer to what was issued

 

I do have this one and I see what you are saying

 

 

 

thx again

mike

post-80886-0-57551100-1586306602_thumb.jpg

post-80886-0-97180900-1586306670.jpg

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.