triplecanopy Posted April 16, 2020 Share #76 Posted April 16, 2020 Information found online that might be useful. This is from a posting made in 2011 -condensed and edited. Years ago the Jedburgh Reunion Committee, now no longer in existence, prepared a simple hand-out to give a general idea of what the Jedburghs were and what their function was. The following is the text: "In World War II the Jedburghs were a Special Force Unit of approximately 300 volunteers recruited from the armed forces of Britain, America and France with a small contingent from the Netherlands, Belgium and Canada. Their task was to parachute into enemy occupied territory in small mixed-nationality teams, to arm and train resistance fighters and to coordinate their activities with the overall strategy of the allied D-Day armies advancing out of the Normandy bridgehead ("Overlord") and the landings in the South of France ("Dragoon"). Milton Hall, near Peterborough, was their home base. There, in 1944, they underwent months of exhaustive training, covering all aspects of modern guerrilla warfare, ambushes, demolition, unarmed combat, silent killing, small arms, parachuting and the techniques of reception committee work for receiving additional supplies by air while operating behind enemy lines. The Operational Teams themselves, which were formed through a mixture of "official" nominations and individual choice, usually comprised either two British or two American Jedburghs plus one other from the intended country of operation. There were variations on the theme, of course, but whatever the final composition, one member of every team was always a radio operator, proficient at high speed Morse code and cyphers, the peculiarities of shortwave radios, such as the "B2" and the "Jed-Set" and the intricacies of running repairs under primitive conditions. Between D-Day and V-E Day, Jedburgh Teams carried out 101 Operations in Europe; 93 with the Maqui’s in France in support of the allied landings and eight in the Netherlands, of which six were in connection with Operation "Market Garden" (Arnhem). Later the Jeds, as they liked to call themselves, did many similar operations with other allied Special Forces, such as the America OSS and the British Force 136 (SOE) in Norway, Italy, Burma, Malaya, Borneo, Indonesia, China and Indo-China. Jedburgh dead, as recorded on the Memorial Tablet in the Sprite Chapel of Peterborough Cathedral numbered 37. Most were killed in action but some died of wounds and others of illness contracted on operations in the jungles of South-East Asia. Seven were executed after capture. One French officer was beheaded and another bayoneted to death". The Special Force Wing, was conceived at ME 65 Milton Hall, near Peterborough, England. There was an open competition to design a unifying emblem for the newly formed Jedburgh Teams. It was won by Captain Victor Gough of the Somerset Light Infantry. Gough became the leader of Team JACOB, however after his capture in France, he was murdered by the Germans. The Wing was worn "in the field" and the initials SF are for Special Force, singular as mentioned. When asked by those who had no idea what this new emblem stood for the Jedburghs often stated, in jest of course, "Sans Femmes" or "Sexually Frustrated"! The Wing though originally solely for the Jedburghs soon travelled to other outfits, especially the OSS Operational Groups. Others also used the insignia, the Poles of the Bard sea Group, those who served at Special Force Headquarters and members of Force 136 in Burma and the 801st-492nd Bombardment Group, code named the Carpetbaggers, the "Air Arm" of the OSS. The SF Wing has been widely copied-faked. There are probably three or four bona-fide original variations. I don't know how accurate the info above is, but it may shed further light on this WWII Outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share #77 Posted April 16, 2020 Since we are still on the subject of SF Wings below is a very good copy of the most abundant variant that has fooled collectors. I did a double take when I first encountered these copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share #78 Posted April 16, 2020 Here is what this copy looks like in mint condition. The front is very convincing but the back gives it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share #79 Posted April 16, 2020 So what the fakers started doing was trimming away the back border and sometimes adding stitching like the one below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share #80 Posted April 16, 2020 The fakers then started adding a backing material of cloth or paper so you couldn't see the embroidery on the back like the one pictured in Post # 68. Below is what the real one looks like and as you can see the back is much different from the back of the fake SF Wing. Hopefully this will save someone a lot of money as the prices for these SF Wings are ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share #81 Posted April 16, 2020 There is another copy of this same variant but it is not made as well and not as convincing but I thought I would add it here on this thread. So you have a mint piece and one where someone has trimmed away most of the black border material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald Posted April 17, 2020 Share #82 Posted April 17, 2020 I wonder if a forum member bought he ebay wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share #83 Posted June 5, 2020 On 4/15/2020 at 9:55 AM, triplecanopy said: Thanks Dennis, I am now seeing some clarity in this discussion. Here are several examples that I have that are similar to the one in question. I can see by your examples why you feel the wing that originally began this thread is genuine and you offer good rationale. I would appreciate your evaluation of these three wings since one looks pretty close in workmanship. I will post the reverse side in the next slide. Thanks for your input. A similar bullion SF Wing is currently up for bid on eBay. There is no period after the "F" and the letters SF is cloth thread instead of bullion like your piece but they appear to have been made by the same company. https://www.ebay.com/itm/pk409-Original-WW2-US-Army-Special-Forces-Sleeve-Wing-Bullion-WA8/353094862652?hash=item523618073c:g:tfoAAOSwmkFe1o4w:sc:USPSPriority!93901!US!-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplecanopy Posted June 5, 2020 Share #84 Posted June 5, 2020 Interesting. It does look close. I see that it is being offered by a seller who deals in a lot of reproductions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian6256 Posted February 1, 2022 Share #85 Posted February 1, 2022 On 4/9/2020 at 1:44 PM, Kadet said: I also thought I might provide to background to this insignia. It is always best to start by stating what the SF wing is NOT; it is not a jump wing, nor is it specifically a Jedburgh or OSS insignia. The SF wing was more of an SSI or unit patch. It symbolized assignment to the Special Force Headquarters (SFHQ). SFHQ was the combined unit established to oversee the special operations missions associated with Operation Overlord. It was manned by personnel from the British SOE, the Free French BCRA and Americans. The American contingent was provided by the OSS. The three main operational elements of the SFHQ were the Jedburghs, the Operational Groups (OGs) and the Special Force (SF) Dets. assigned to each of the Allied invasion Armies as liaison elements. The Jedburgh's were three man teams consisting of an officer, a radio operator and a Free French operator. Their mission was to coordinate the actions of the Maquis and coordinate resupply. The Operational Groups were much larger combat units whose mission was also to coordinate with the resistance. Additionally, they were capable of conducting unilateral combat and sabotage operations. SFHQ also included the bakers and candlestick makers associated with any military unit, along with intelligence, communications and Morale Operations (MO) personnel. Today MO would be called PSYOPS. All of these people would have been eligible to wear the SF wing. The Operational Groups that dropped in to Southern France came from the MTO and were members of the "French OG", which eventually became Company A of the 2671st Special Reconnaissance Battalion. These men would not have worn the SF wing. The OSS typically only provided jump training to those whose mission required it. Donovan recruited heavily from the airborne divisions, so many OSS personnel were jump qualified when they entered the program. OSS personnel were also jump qualified by the British at their Ringway facility and in North Africa. Interesting to note that even the US jump qualified personnel assigned to SFHQ were required by the British to attend Ringway. This is why you see men wearing US jump wings, British jump wings and the SF "wing" at the same time. This is a fantastic explanation. Thank you! -Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian6256 Posted February 2, 2022 Share #86 Posted February 2, 2022 On 4/9/2020 at 1:44 PM, Kadet said: I also thought I might provide to background to this insignia. It is always best to start by stating what the SF wing is NOT; it is not a jump wing, nor is it specifically a Jedburgh or OSS insignia. The SF wing was more of an SSI or unit patch. It symbolized assignment to the Special Force Headquarters (SFHQ). SFHQ was the combined unit established to oversee the special operations missions associated with Operation Overlord. It was manned by personnel from the British SOE, the Free French BCRA and Americans. The American contingent was provided by the OSS. The three main operational elements of the SFHQ were the Jedburghs, the Operational Groups (OGs) and the Special Force (SF) Dets. assigned to each of the Allied invasion Armies as liaison elements. The Jedburgh's were three man teams consisting of an officer, a radio operator and a Free French operator. Their mission was to coordinate the actions of the Maquis and coordinate resupply. The Operational Groups were much larger combat units whose mission was also to coordinate with the resistance. Additionally, they were capable of conducting unilateral combat and sabotage operations. SFHQ also included the bakers and candlestick makers associated with any military unit, along with intelligence, communications and Morale Operations (MO) personnel. Today MO would be called PSYOPS. All of these people would have been eligible to wear the SF wing. The Operational Groups that dropped in to Southern France came from the MTO and were members of the "French OG", which eventually became Company A of the 2671st Special Reconnaissance Battalion. These men would not have worn the SF wing. The OSS typically only provided jump training to those whose mission required it. Donovan recruited heavily from the airborne divisions, so many OSS personnel were jump qualified when they entered the program. OSS personnel were also jump qualified by the British at their Ringway facility and in North Africa. Interesting to note that even the US jump qualified personnel assigned to SFHQ were required by the British to attend Ringway. This is why you see men wearing US jump wings, British jump wings and the SF "wing" at the same time. I have a question about the Jedburgh insignia, Is there a specific reason they seem to wear them on the right side rather than the left as traditionally seen on uniforms of the era. Also I was curious, if they are considered an SSI, does this mean a Jedburgh combat veteran who served post war could wear the Jedburgh SSI on the combat side of a jungle jacket for example? And has anyone seen any examples of this? Reading through this thread has been very informative. Thanks, Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 2, 2022 Share #87 Posted February 2, 2022 Here is a picture of a jacket that was worn after the war was over. On The sleeve are 2 photos of him wearing the jacket in the late 40s. Sorry but this is the only picture I have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian6256 Posted February 2, 2022 Share #88 Posted February 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, manayunkman said: Here is a picture of a jacket that was worn after the war was over. On The sleeve are 2 photos of him wearing the jacket in the late 40s. Sorry but this is the only picture I have left. That is pretty cool how he wears it below another division patch. Very interesting to see thank you. -Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian6256 Posted February 2, 2022 Share #89 Posted February 2, 2022 I would be interesting to know how late after the war examples have been found on uniforms of Veterans. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted February 2, 2022 Share #90 Posted February 2, 2022 Here is a picture of the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted February 3, 2022 Share #91 Posted February 3, 2022 To answer the question, I believe it was worn on the sleeve to follow the British practice for such insignia. OSS personnel that rated the SF patch, British jump wings and US jump wings typically wore the SF patch on the sleeve, the Brit wings over the right pocket and the US wings in their typical location over the left pocket. I have two groups to WWII OSS officers that wore their SF wings during their post war service. This is Gerald Davis, who served in France with the OSS and went on to a long career in the Army and CIA. This photo was taken in the 1960s when he was a Colonel. The other photo is him receiving the Bronze Star during the war for his actions in France. The award ceremony was held in the US when he was in transit to China. Note that the actual wings in the pics are the exact same ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted February 3, 2022 Share #92 Posted February 3, 2022 Here is another great series of photos that show SF wings. This is Operational Group Adrian prior to their jump in to France. A lot of interesting details in these pics including the British helmets and chutes and the UD-42 weapons, which were peculiar to the OSS. No mistaking the nationality of these guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share #93 Posted February 3, 2022 On 2/2/2022 at 7:41 AM, manayunkman said: Here is a picture of a jacket that was worn after the war was over. On The sleeve are 2 photos of him wearing the jacket in the late 40s. Sorry but this is the only picture I have left. Here are some better pictures of this grouping which I kept as reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian6256 Posted February 4, 2022 Share #94 Posted February 4, 2022 On 2/3/2022 at 5:46 AM, Kadet said: To answer the question, I believe it was worn on the sleeve to follow the British practice for such insignia. OSS personnel that rated the SF patch, British jump wings and US jump wings typically wore the SF patch on the sleeve, the Brit wings over the right pocket and the US wings in their typical location over the left pocket. I have two groups to WWII OSS officers that wore their SF wings during their post war service. This is Gerald Davis, who served in France with the OSS and went on to a long career in the Army and CIA. This photo was taken in the 1960s when he was a Colonel. The other photo is him receiving the Bronze Star during the war for his actions in France. The award ceremony was held in the US when he was in transit to China. Note that the actual wings in the pics are the exact same ones. That is a great example and exactly answers what I was wondering about. Thank you. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWIIBuff Posted April 3, 2023 Share #95 Posted April 3, 2023 On 4/16/2020 at 12:11 PM, triplecanopy said: Information found online that might be useful. This is from a posting made in 2011 -condensed and edited. Years ago the Jedburgh Reunion Committee, now no longer in existence, prepared a simple hand-out to give a general idea of what the Jedburghs were and what their function was. The following is the text: "In World War II the Jedburghs were a Special Force Unit of approximately 300 volunteers recruited from the armed forces of Britain, America and France with a small contingent from the Netherlands, Belgium and Canada. Their task was to parachute into enemy occupied territory in small mixed-nationality teams, to arm and train resistance fighters and to coordinate their activities with the overall strategy of the allied D-Day armies advancing out of the Normandy bridgehead ("Overlord") and the landings in the South of France ("Dragoon"). Milton Hall, near Peterborough, was their home base. There, in 1944, they underwent months of exhaustive training, covering all aspects of modern guerrilla warfare, ambushes, demolition, unarmed combat, silent killing, small arms, parachuting and the techniques of reception committee work for receiving additional supplies by air while operating behind enemy lines. The Operational Teams themselves, which were formed through a mixture of "official" nominations and individual choice, usually comprised either two British or two American Jedburghs plus one other from the intended country of operation. There were variations on the theme, of course, but whatever the final composition, one member of every team was always a radio operator, proficient at high speed Morse code and cyphers, the peculiarities of shortwave radios, such as the "B2" and the "Jed-Set" and the intricacies of running repairs under primitive conditions. Between D-Day and V-E Day, Jedburgh Teams carried out 101 Operations in Europe; 93 with the Maqui’s in France in support of the allied landings and eight in the Netherlands, of which six were in connection with Operation "Market Garden" (Arnhem). Later the Jeds, as they liked to call themselves, did many similar operations with other allied Special Forces, such as the America OSS and the British Force 136 (SOE) in Norway, Italy, Burma, Malaya, Borneo, Indonesia, China and Indo-China. Jedburgh dead, as recorded on the Memorial Tablet in the Sprite Chapel of Peterborough Cathedral numbered 37. Most were killed in action but some died of wounds and others of illness contracted on operations in the jungles of South-East Asia. Seven were executed after capture. One French officer was beheaded and another bayoneted to death". The Special Force Wing, was conceived at ME 65 Milton Hall, near Peterborough, England. There was an open competition to design a unifying emblem for the newly formed Jedburgh Teams. It was won by Captain Victor Gough of the Somerset Light Infantry. Gough became the leader of Team JACOB, however after his capture in France, he was murdered by the Germans. The Wing was worn "in the field" and the initials SF are for Special Force, singular as mentioned. When asked by those who had no idea what this new emblem stood for the Jedburghs often stated, in jest of course, "Sans Femmes" or "Sexually Frustrated"! The Wing though originally solely for the Jedburghs soon travelled to other outfits, especially the OSS Operational Groups. Others also used the insignia, the Poles of the Bard sea Group, those who served at Special Force Headquarters and members of Force 136 in Burma and the 801st-492nd Bombardment Group, code named the Carpetbaggers, the "Air Arm" of the OSS. The SF Wing has been widely copied-faked. There are probably three or four bona-fide original variations. I don't know how accurate the info above is, but it may shed further light on this WWII Outfit. In my opinion this is very accurate based on what I have learned from my research, and someone who spent a lot of time with the original Jedburgh veterans, and documenting their stories. Two points to remember concerning the Jedburghs and the SF Wings are: 1) The SF wing was originally designed and worn by members of Operation Jedburgh who trained at Milton Hall in the UK. It was adapted a short time later by SFHQ for other Special Forces; 2) Not every soldier who wore the SF wings was a Jedburgh, they were Special Forces, but only those who trained at Milton Hall as part of Operation Jedburgh were actual Jedburghs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vucher Posted April 8, 2023 Share #96 Posted April 8, 2023 How this for you guys, real or fake ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted April 8, 2023 Author Share #97 Posted April 8, 2023 It looks like a copy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted April 8, 2023 Share #98 Posted April 8, 2023 Pure fake. Incorrect embr cables, incorrect style of embr cables, incorrect color of cables in wing, incorrect red disc material, incorrect SF the black material is probably incorrect, too but I can't tell from the image. Please study the one in post #4 and use the search button for other images. Knowledge is power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vucher Posted April 9, 2023 Share #99 Posted April 9, 2023 The seller claims it’s original too :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Scott Posted April 9, 2023 Share #100 Posted April 9, 2023 The seller can claim what he wants but it is a bad fake do not waste your money on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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