ocsfollowme Posted April 8, 2020 Share #26 Posted April 8, 2020 OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted April 8, 2020 Share #27 Posted April 8, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted April 8, 2020 Share #28 Posted April 8, 2020 I don't like the Ebay wing either for what it is worth. The two "standard" (if you can call them that) SF wings are the the style shown by Bill IDd to OG personnel and another style with arched wings. The second version has a period after the F the first does not. I think the thinner style shown by Bill is original, and an adaptation of an RAF wing. Here is a period pic of the style with arched wings as worn by the men of OG Adrian. The photo was taken in the aircraft prior to their drop in to France. This photo has a plethora of fascinating details if you look closely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted April 8, 2020 Share #29 Posted April 8, 2020 I have nothing very intelligent to add to this thread, as I remain completely ignorant of these items. However, I do recall a number of years ago that there were a ton of English-made (according to what I had heard) squadron patches. The thread used to make these patches was thicker than normal (IRC) and the back was characterized by a bunch of loose threads in a mass. The back of this patch looks like those fake squadron patches, from the best I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Scott Posted April 8, 2020 Share #30 Posted April 8, 2020 Pete you are correct the thinner style is the one most often seen that was given to Pilots who dropped the OG groups into enemy territory.Here is another one which I think was made from an RAF wing.Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald Posted April 8, 2020 Share #31 Posted April 8, 2020 A good informative discussion. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted April 9, 2020 Share #32 Posted April 9, 2020 Scotty, Your wing is most definitely an RAF pilot brevet that has been modified into a SF wing. I have always been very afraid of these wings as the only "real" one that I have ever encountered was made as a SF wing and not modified. My question would be who would be doing the modification? If the wing was made by the tailor, why wouldn't it just be made to the proper pattern without modification? If it were made by the veteran, they would have been an OUTSTANDING seamstress. If it were made by the OGs for issue to the team, then why wouldn't they just issue out the normally seen SF wing? I am not saying that the wing you have photographed isn't original, just that it is quite unusual and would have been made under quite unique circumstances. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBaird Posted April 9, 2020 Share #33 Posted April 9, 2020 Great topic! I don't have one of these wings yet.... but I will eventually. Very informative as I always get skeptical when I see them. Thanks Bill Scott, I had no idea they had a wing for the pilots! And thanks to everyone for educating us all. Sitting here researching an OSS group I picked up a few years ago and this pops. up... well, have to have something to do while on "lockdown"! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL THE PATCH Posted April 9, 2020 Share #34 Posted April 9, 2020 I have nothing very intelligent to add to this thread, as I remain completely ignorant of these items. However, I do recall a number of years ago that there were a ton of English-made (according to what I had heard) squadron patches. The thread used to make these patches was thicker than normal (IRC) and the back was characterized by a bunch of loose threads in a mass. The back of this patch looks like those fake squadron patches, from the best I can see.I think your thinking of the butler patches out of England. I think that is the name of the guy making all the repo sqn patches. And yes very similar Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn92 Posted April 9, 2020 Share #35 Posted April 9, 2020 Great info presented by the experienced collectors here, as always. Too bad those bidding do not do their research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted April 9, 2020 Share #36 Posted April 9, 2020 Here is another shot of OG Adrian getting jocked up in the ready room prior to boarding their jump aircraft. All of the men in this shot are wearing the "arched" SF wing with the period after the F. From my experience, this is the more common of the two undoubtedly original styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted April 9, 2020 Share #37 Posted April 9, 2020 I also thought I might provide to background to this insignia. It is always best to start by stating what the SF wing is NOT; it is not a jump wing, nor is it specifically a Jedburgh or OSS insignia. The SF wing was more of an SSI or unit patch. It symbolized assignment to the Special Force Headquarters (SFHQ). SFHQ was the combined unit established to oversee the special operations missions associated with Operation Overlord. It was manned by personnel from the British SOE, the Free French BCRA and Americans. The American contingent was provided by the OSS. The three main operational elements of the SFHQ were the Jedburghs, the Operational Groups (OGs) and the Special Force (SF) Dets. assigned to each of the Allied invasion Armies as liaison elements. The Jedburgh's were three man teams consisting of an officer, a radio operator and a Free French operator. Their mission was to coordinate the actions of the Maquis and coordinate resupply. The Operational Groups were much larger combat units whose mission was also to coordinate with the resistance. Additionally, they were capable of conducting unilateral combat and sabotage operations. SFHQ also included the bakers and candlestick makers associated with any military unit, along with intelligence, communications and Morale Operations (MO) personnel. Today MO would be called PSYOPS. All of these people would have been eligible to wear the SF wing. The Operational Groups that dropped in to Southern France came from the MTO and were members of the "French OG", which eventually became Company A of the 2671st Special Reconnaissance Battalion. These men would not have worn the SF wing. The OSS typically only provided jump training to those whose mission required it. Donovan recruited heavily from the airborne divisions, so many OSS personnel were jump qualified when they entered the program. OSS personnel were also jump qualified by the British at their Ringway facility and in North Africa. Interesting to note that even the US jump qualified personnel assigned to SFHQ were required by the British to attend Ringway. This is why you see men wearing US jump wings, British jump wings and the SF "wing" at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted April 9, 2020 Share #38 Posted April 9, 2020 Great information Kadet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted April 9, 2020 Share #39 Posted April 9, 2020 Thanks....one correction though. The French OG became Company B of the 2671st not Company A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share #40 Posted April 11, 2020 My feeble bid for this SF Wing didn't even come close to the ending bid of $2248.00 for those of you that were following this piece. This SF Wing is actually a genuine period piece that is pictured on Les Hughes website of www.insigne.org and labeled as, " B. From a veteran of the Operation Group". A link was provided by ocsfollowme in the above post # 14 but it seems a number of collectors missed this because the the wing in question is a little worn and crooked as it may have been damaged slightly when it was originally removed from the uniform it was sewn upon. In addition the light blue threads of the initials SF on the back of this wing had come unraveled slightly. For future reference the first WW2 Chinese Commando SSI sold for $768.00 and is pictured below: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share #41 Posted April 11, 2020 Back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald Posted April 11, 2020 Share #42 Posted April 11, 2020 Well, somebody thought it was real enough to spend 2248.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share #43 Posted April 11, 2020 The second WW2 Chinese Commando SSI with cap piece sold for $2014.00: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share #44 Posted April 11, 2020 Back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn92 Posted April 11, 2020 Share #45 Posted April 11, 2020 Dang. Big bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted April 11, 2020 Share #46 Posted April 11, 2020 So the wing is good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beef Posted April 11, 2020 Share #47 Posted April 11, 2020 Is the SF wing Italian made? It looks a lot like some of the construction used in my 509th PIB and 2761st Special Recon Bn stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald Posted April 11, 2020 Share #48 Posted April 11, 2020 Evidently considering the amount paid. I imagine the folks looking at it realize it was real. So the wing is good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplecanopy Posted April 14, 2020 Share #49 Posted April 14, 2020 I hate to see this subject just dropped without further explanation. We had several well respected contributors offer their opinion that the OSS wing in question was a reproduction. Then another highly respected collector indicated that he thought that the wing was authentic. It sold to someone who obviously thought it was the real deal as it sold for over $2200.00. That is a small fortune to pay for a patch that is not in the best of shape. I still have my doubts about it as I am sure other collectors do. So can we continue this discussion as to why it is the real deal or why it is a copy? I recall someone saying, "buy the item - not the story". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted April 14, 2020 Share #50 Posted April 14, 2020 I chose my words very carefully in the post I made about this wing . I said I didn't like it...not that it was a reproduction. The two types that I personally am comfortable with are the ones I mentioned. I've actually acquired both of these types from the families of OSS veterans, and they also appear in period photographic evidence. Yes the Ebay wing style appears in the collection of a well respected authority with an attribution. That may very well be accurate and true, but for me personally...I will stick with what I know. Especially when such large sums are involved. Others obviously thought the wing was real, and I don't dispute that at all. Perhaps they know something I don't, or have received this style from a first hand source. We are all constantly learning. Actually...congrats to the buyer! My two cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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