Jump to content

Was this the real Raider tab?


Recommended Posts

As many of you have been following ebay sales of a Raider tab and the discussion on the forum concerning price and what a value and potential so you better get it now talk recently. while this was going on a differnt type of Raider tab has shown up and had very active bidding and sold at 600% more of what the recent tab sells. They are very different tabs. I believe this to be the first type issued. Would like to hear other opinions or thoughts.

post-565-0-38976600-1586042223_thumb.jpg

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

How about one of the Raider units in 25th ID, since in patch colors? Not for GHQ Raiders (8245 AU).

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gif

Member, ASMIC.

Editor, ASMIC's The Trading Post

ASMIC Executive VP

Link to post
Share on other sites

That i guess is a possibility but has anyone ever been ID as such,not that I am aware of; but this was bought by me as the raider tab 30 years ago for 8245AU and with the council of our friend in Hawaii who specializes in this area.

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Dave is right. I am most confident this is 25th ID. David Hackworth wrote of raider platoons for each Infantry Regiment of the 25th Infantry Division. I have only found concrete evidence for the 27th Infantry Regiment. However, considering Hack was the C/O of the raider unit I would generally consider his biography to be accurate as to which other nearby units had raiders. There are several pieces specific to the 27th Raiders that will be shown in an upcoming ASMIC issue. The color scheme matches the 27th Raiders and the 25th ID.

 

I am putting together a complete list of all the raider type units in Korea and their insignia. Maybe half use the term raider. To make things more complex, most of the raider units that existed in 1951 were folded at the end of the year or into the beginning of 1952. Later in 1952 a second batch of raider type units started to appear. I can't prove it yet 100%, but I believe there were 2 different 27th Raiders. Hack specifically makes mention of a tab being used by the 27th. I have found one for sure example, but it does not preclude other tabs from being worn. This could be 27th Raiders or any other 25th Inf Div regiment's raider tab.

 

I agree with Dave, it is not 8245th. Dave hasn't seen it yet, but a forum member has put together an excellent collection of 8245th Patches that he will send in for publication at a later date. This does not match, but I find it plausible that it was inspired by the 8245th.

 

I am still looking for surviving members of any raider units in Korea. Of the 44+/- from the 27th I have traced maybe 5-8. All have passed. Hack in 2005 and his right hand man Crispino in 2003. My most recent hope seems to have faded for a member of the Cacti Raiders sometimes called the Cacti Rangers.

California

 

"Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.

One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."

 

-Lt. Col. Grant L. Rosensteel, Jr.

USAF

 

''A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.'' Gerald Ford

 

"Those who melt their guns into plows will plow for those who don't." Thomas Jefferson

 

"I live in weirdville." Owen

 

donation2011.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Could be true and not saying it is not possible,but why copy a tab and not distinguish it from the one you copy in some manner,just asking.

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

John W. Connor, a member of the GHQ 1st Raider Company(8245th Army Unit) wrote a book "Let Slip the Dogs of War" about the 8245th. He shows the 8245th Raider tab on both the front and back covers of the book. It is not like the one mortaydc60 shows above. Rather, it is like the Raider tabs that have been for sale on ebay recently with the lettering spread clear across the tab.

 

Always looking for USN WW2 era Bullion Chief Petty Officer Rates, any Chief Petty Officer Airship Rigger Rates, Liberty Cuffs, WW2 USMC Insignia and Distinguishing Marks, and WW2 Civil Defense and Civil Air Patrol Insignia


OVMS Member
ASMIC Member



donation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gif
donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could be true and not saying it is not possible,but why copy a tab and not distinguish it from the one you copy in some manner,just asking.

Guess it depends on what your definition of "copy" is.

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gif

Member, ASMIC.

Editor, ASMIC's The Trading Post

ASMIC Executive VP

Link to post
Share on other sites

Could be true and not saying it is not possible,but why copy a tab and not distinguish it from the one you copy in some manner,just asking.

 

as far as copies go the ROTC use of Raider and Ranger tabs has been observed so whats a copy really in the grand scheme of things...Raider and Ranger are just words or terminology

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a thought here or question. When have you seen a 25 div patch with a tab that did not have some designation as to the unit? Hundreds have been on ebay for all the Eng,Art Inf,etc units in the div. Again no real answer so why is it not possible and more likely the first version of the GHQ raider. But instead we get it is the 25 div raider tab based on what? KISS principle applies. A bunch of people thought it was special besides me for some reason.

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

….."When have you seen a 25 div patch with a tab that did not have some designation as to the unit?"

 

Except for location tabs, all tabs have a designation to the unit. r do you mean to the superior unit? Or what exactly do you mean?

 

And if you use the TP Search Index, you will see tabs for subordinate 25th ID units that are in...drum roll, please - red and yellow...tah dah. 14th Inf and 35th RCT are two.

 

And, like everyone else, I have been wrong, too.

 

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gif

Member, ASMIC.

Editor, ASMIC's The Trading Post

ASMIC Executive VP

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave that is exactly the point i was trying to make. So logically following your argument wouldn't a 25 Raider tab say it was 25th Inf Div Raider and not produce a tab that mimics the GHQ raider unit tab?

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Until one of the tabs that started this post turns up in a photo or attached to a shirt we can say it's whatever we want.Getting people to agree with you is another story.In my opinion I do not think it's a 8245th AU tab but 25th Division related just my opinion.Without proof as my friend Dick Pankowski said so well. " What Do You Want It To Be " end quote.

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


donation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the time it was purchased at an ASMIC convention and I believe from John Patton,believed to be GHQ raider at that time. He especially expressed how rare it was at the time. This is best I can recollect of conversation.

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry Mort the RAIDER tab in question was never in my possession nor had I ever made reference of this being a 8245 AU related tab. Matter of fact and before this thread I never seen a tab like this one before. Perhaps your thinking of Dennis Kim who specializes in elite units that participated the Korean War.

 

In regards to this possibly being a "PAGAN RAIDERS" tab of the 179th Infantry I do believe it is highly unlikely. Their colors were red, black and white. The 1st Battalion was just a tab of the mentioned colors above and only the wording RAIDERS was on it according Clyde Antrim and former member on the unit. The 2nd and 3rd Battalions had scrolls. I wrote an article about the Pagan Raiders years ago that illustrates a khaki shirt with the 3rd Battalion scroll above the 45th Division patch. The scroll read "3rd PAGAN RAIDERS Bn. I hadn't seen the 2nd Battalion yet however Clyde Antrim stated there was a design competition and that the design ultimately selected were all basically the same.

 

Bill Scott really hits the bell on this entire topic and eventually that "smoking gun" will present itself as it had so many times before when either re-identifying a long time mislabeling of an insignia or actually finding an identification of an unknown. Give it time, something will surface, especially if someone is willing to get into weeds and do a pile of research.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mahalo John for the reply. Man I thought for sure it was you; it shows memories with years seem to fade. Thanks for atleast clearing up as best we can for now that itis not with 45th div. Hopefully we will find out in near future.

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif
donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.