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copper252

164th Infantry Guadalcanal Vet Uniform

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Americal Division uniform to SSGT Harold F r i e s e. When the 164th Infantry Regiment was federalized in February 1941, SSGT F r i e s e had already been in service for 2 years and 8 months. He was assigned to B Company, 1st Battalion. In September 1941 while at Camp Clairborne he was assigned as First Sergeant prior to being sent overseas. The 164th shipped to New Caledonia in March 1942. On October 13th, 1942, B Company, along with the the entire 164th Regiment was shipped to Guadalcanal. On Guadalcanal he was involved in the rescue of a trapped patrol. During the rescue of this patrol he was SGT, the reason for demotion is unknown but I hope to find out when I request his records. B Company left Guadalcanal on March 1st for the Fiji islands. Just before the Bougainville campaign he was loaded onto the USS Solace to return to the US. I an not sure why he was shipped home but I assume it was for non combat injuries or sickness. While on the ship he was listed as a Private so at some point he lost his stripes again. He arrived in the US on November 10th, 1943. He was then assigned to the AGF replacement depot. He was then married in June 1944. He was then discharged from the Army as a SSGT on October 5th, 1945.

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Looking for WWII Americal Division and 147th Infantry Regiment Uniforms and anything relating to the Army on Guadalcanal.

 

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More photos

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Looking for WWII Americal Division and 147th Infantry Regiment Uniforms and anything relating to the Army on Guadalcanal.

 

donation2018.gifimage.png.eeda3e0d45132eb99f4dd8b07fd60103.pngdonation2020.gif

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More photos

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Looking for WWII Americal Division and 147th Infantry Regiment Uniforms and anything relating to the Army on Guadalcanal.

 

donation2018.gifimage.png.eeda3e0d45132eb99f4dd8b07fd60103.pngdonation2020.gif

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More photos

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Looking for WWII Americal Division and 147th Infantry Regiment Uniforms and anything relating to the Army on Guadalcanal.

 

donation2018.gifimage.png.eeda3e0d45132eb99f4dd8b07fd60103.pngdonation2020.gif

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That is a great story and uniform; congrats.

 

Kurt


My hobby is my job and my job is my hobby. High School and University History Instructor

 

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That is a great story and uniform; congrats.

 

Kurt

 

Thanks!


Looking for WWII Americal Division and 147th Infantry Regiment Uniforms and anything relating to the Army on Guadalcanal.

 

donation2018.gifimage.png.eeda3e0d45132eb99f4dd8b07fd60103.pngdonation2020.gif

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No CIB Copp?

 

The uniform came to me stripped of ribbons, I don't see holes for a CIB on it and there is no CIB in his wedding photo which I restored the ribbons after. The wedding photo was taken in June 1944 so that may explain the missing CIB. It also wasn't listed on his discharge so i'm not sure.


Looking for WWII Americal Division and 147th Infantry Regiment Uniforms and anything relating to the Army on Guadalcanal.

 

donation2018.gifimage.png.eeda3e0d45132eb99f4dd8b07fd60103.pngdonation2020.gif

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The uniform came to me stripped of ribbons, I don't see holes for a CIB on it and there is no CIB in his wedding photo which I restored the ribbons after. The wedding photo was taken in June 1944 so that may explain the missing CIB. It also wasn't listed on his discharge so i'm not sure.

Hmmm. odd, he should of had one by June 44, we know some wounded vets from The Solomons and New Guinea that were Photo-ed in the summer of 43 fall 43 didn't have the CIB cause it wasn't adopted yet, but by the summer of 44 yes.

 

post-34986-0-01822600-1465091466.jpg

 

Here's one, the famous author James Jones, 25th Division Infantry Combat Veteran Guadalcanal after he got back to the states. The belief is with this foto is that he is more than likely home on leave after being wounded and convalescing circa late 1943, hasn't been issued or acquired his CIB yet, CIB comes out around this time. The reason it's felt that he is on leave is appearance, he's wearing the Dark Chocolate officers shirt, maybe even the same shade trousers, he's also wearing those OD on Khaki chevrons too, which are to be worn only on Khak shirts, all which adds to his Non Standard appearance, an appearance that would not be tolerated on a post no less in formation.

 

 

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I'm Curious about the Presidential Unit Citation ribbon on this uniform, why would he have one if he was part of the 164th Infantry Regiment? I thought that ribbon was only authorized for Navy and Marine Corps Units?

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

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I'm Curious about the Presidential Unit Citation ribbon on this uniform, why would he have one if he was part of the 164th Infantry Regiment? I thought that ribbon was only authorized for Navy and Marine Corps Units?

 

Hunt

Several Army units were awarded the Navy PUC in WWII, and Korea hunt, the 164th Infantry Americal among them, awarded for action on Guadalcanal. When the Navy PUC is conferred on a Army unit, it is because this unit operated along side a Marine unit, the Americal, was a part of the Combined Army and Marine Division on Guadalcanal, or as it was more popularly called, the CAM Division.

 

The 164th Infantry had 1 award of the Navy PUC, not sure where the Star Device for a 2nd Award comes in, there's another uniform with the Navy Puc with a Star device posted by copper.HERE

 

 

The successor unit for the 164th Infantry, scroll down to Decorations

https://history.army.mil/html/forcestruc/lineages/branches/eng/0817enco.htm

 

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Hmmm. odd, he should of had one by June 44, we know some wounded vets from The Solomons and New Guinea that were Photo-ed in the summer of 43 fall 43 didn't have the CIB cause it wasn't adopted yet, but by the summer of 44 yes.

 

post-34986-0-01822600-1465091466.jpg

 

Here's one, the famous author James Jones, 25th Division Infantry Combat Veteran Guadalcanal after he got back to the states. The belief is with this foto is that he is more than likely home on leave after being wounded and convalescing circa late 1943, hasn't been issued or acquired his CIB yet, CIB comes out around this time. The reason it's felt that he is on leave is appearance, he's wearing the Dark Chocolate officers shirt, maybe even the same shade trousers, he's also wearing those OD on Khaki chevrons too, which are to be worn only on Khak shirts, all which adds to his Non Standard appearance, an appearance that would not be tolerated on a post no less in formation.

 

 

 

I have seen that photo of James Jones before, quite an interesting one. I will most likely leave the CIB off unless his file confirms it whenever I get it, I know he would definitely say he got one because he was involved in the rescue of that patrol on the canal.


Looking for WWII Americal Division and 147th Infantry Regiment Uniforms and anything relating to the Army on Guadalcanal.

 

donation2018.gifimage.png.eeda3e0d45132eb99f4dd8b07fd60103.pngdonation2020.gif

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Several Army units were awarded the Navy PUC in WWII, and Korea hunt, the 164th Infantry Americal among them, awarded for action on Guadalcanal. When the Navy PUC is conferred on a Army unit, it is because this unit operated along side a Marine unit, the Americal, was a part of the Combined Army and Marine Division on Guadalcanal, or as it was more popularly called, the CAM Division.

 

The 164th Infantry had 1 award of the Navy PUC, not sure where the Star Device for a 2nd Award comes in, there's another uniform with the Navy Puc with a Star device posted by copper.HERE

 

 

The successor unit for the 164th Infantry, scroll down to Decorations

https://history.army.mil/html/forcestruc/lineages/branches/eng/0817enco.htm

 

 

Interesting, thank you for the explanation I did not know that! I see in the other uniform posted the PUC is worn on the right side, would it have been worn there, or on the left side with the other ribbons in accordance to Marine Corps/Navy Regulation? Interesting thing for sure, i'll keep this in mind for the future!

 

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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Interesting, thank you for the explanation I did not know that! I see in the other uniform posted the PUC is worn on the right side, would it have been worn there, or on the left side with the other ribbons in accordance to Marine Corps/Navy Regulation? Interesting thing for sure, i'll keep this in mind for the future!

 

Hunt

 

It should be worn on the right side of the uniform. I restored it to the left side above his other ribbons because that is how he wore it in his wedding photo. I have also seen some other Americal vets wear it on the right side as well.


Looking for WWII Americal Division and 147th Infantry Regiment Uniforms and anything relating to the Army on Guadalcanal.

 

donation2018.gifimage.png.eeda3e0d45132eb99f4dd8b07fd60103.pngdonation2020.gif

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Great blouse Seth! I know that the restoration has been a labor of love.

 

A coupe of observations here- First, I keep telling people that rank in WWII was NOTHING like the rank structure today. Rank was far more temporary and enlisted ranks were at the whim of the Company Commander inside a company. A soldier could be a private one day, get promoted to Sergeant the next day and be back to private the day after without having to go through promotion boards or going through non-judicial punishment. It was not uncommon for soldiers in one company to get "recruited" to another company because a captain (or a first sergeant) was looking for a sergeant to "whip the troops into line."

 

When a soldier was transferred from one company to another, rank did not go with him.

 

As for the star on the Navy PUC, the original issue of the PUC came with a BLUE star. It was only later in WWII that the decision was made to change the star to denote a subsequent award of the PUC. This is why you will see a number of WWII photos of marines wearing a star in one photo and later photos showing the award without a star. The regulations changed and the BLUE star turned to bronze.

 

Allan


Never under-estimate the power of prayer.

 

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A coupe of observations here- First, I keep telling people that rank in WWII was NOTHING like the rank structure today. Rank was far more temporary and enlisted ranks were at the whim of the Company Commander inside a company. A soldier could be a private one day, get promoted to Sergeant the next day and be back to private the day after without having to go through promotion boards or going through non-judicial punishment. It was not uncommon for soldiers in one company to get "recruited" to another company because a captain (or a first sergeant) was looking for a sergeant to "whip the troops into line."

 

When a soldier was transferred from one company to another, rank did not go with him.

 

 

 

Allan

Yup I always thought it a great detail that Burt Lancaster as 1SG Warden mentions he could transfer to any other company and IN grade

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I collect WWII Postal History and recently acquired this cover. It is from 1st Lt Nat Rogan Jr of Co B , 164th Infantry,

 

US Army mail from Guadalcanal during 1942 is VERY scarce. USMC mail is too.

 

This one is unusual because it was not postmarked until it reached San Francisco on 12/13/42. It has a manuscript censor ( he censored it with his signature) and he sent it Air Mail , which normally cost 6c, but he noted " Airmail Stamps Not Available"

 

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Kurt,

 

That is a VERY cool piece of mail! Thank you for sharing it with us.

 

Allan


Never under-estimate the power of prayer.

 

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Great blouse Seth! I know that the restoration has been a labor of love.

 

A coupe of observations here- First, I keep telling people that rank in WWII was NOTHING like the rank structure today. Rank was far more temporary and enlisted ranks were at the whim of the Company Commander inside a company. A soldier could be a private one day, get promoted to Sergeant the next day and be back to private the day after without having to go through promotion boards or going through non-judicial punishment. It was not uncommon for soldiers in one company to get "recruited" to another company because a captain (or a first sergeant) was looking for a sergeant to "whip the troops into line."

 

When a soldier was transferred from one company to another, rank did not go with him.

 

As for the star on the Navy PUC, the original issue of the PUC came with a BLUE star. It was only later in WWII that the decision was made to change the star to denote a subsequent award of the PUC. This is why you will see a number of WWII photos of marines wearing a star in one photo and later photos showing the award without a star. The regulations changed and the BLUE star turned to bronze.

 

Allan

Oh that's right Allan completely forgot about the WWII Blue Star, good point out.

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I love that mail, I have never seen one like it. Amazing, you never know they may have known each other.


Looking for WWII Americal Division and 147th Infantry Regiment Uniforms and anything relating to the Army on Guadalcanal.

 

donation2018.gifimage.png.eeda3e0d45132eb99f4dd8b07fd60103.pngdonation2020.gif

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