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Post-War used WW2/Pre-WW2 Enlisted Mens Wool Service Jacket

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Hello All,

 

Thought I'd share this interesting jacket currently listed on eBay. Its A wool enlisted mens service coat as worn in the interwar and ww2 era. I wouldn't be that suprised by it if not for no WW2 era service and a National Defense Ribbon! Weird to think this uniform was being worn in the mid 50's!?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Cold-War-Berlin-9th-Division-Army-Dress-Uniform/114149436125?hash=item1a93d62add:g:iwYAAOSwSN5dxhbE

 

post-165862-0-91669600-1584557821.jpg


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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Put Together in my estimation, for one the Berlin Command wouldn't rate as a Former Wartime Service/Combat Patch, and while this M26 Coat does show up in at least two late-sh 1940s photos being worn still (These interestingly enough by GIs on their wedding day), their wear in the mid-sh 50s would be most improbable.

 

post-34986-0-57551000-1584587852_thumb.jpgpost-34986-0-92882000-1584587858_thumb.jpg

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There are a couple of anomalies that ought to be mentioned. First, the "combat" patch was actually identified as "Former Wartime Unit" and even units that didn't see combat show up on the right shoulder of veterans. Additionally, the use of the US Army Europe with "Berlin" tab came into being before the official end of World War II and the "occupation sectors" were still considered in the combat zone. So, TECHNICALLY, a soldier serving on occupation duty could end up wearing the USAEUR SSI as a "combat" patch. We should also remember that the four pocket blouse was still limited standard wear into the 1950's.

My question about the jacket that started all of this would be WHY would somebody bother to put this together if it wasn't what it is represented to be? There is no "sexy" insignia and the jacket isn't even complete? My guess here is that the patches were worn on this uniform. Perhaps the vet's ribbon bar was added to his old jacket? I really cannot believe that the jacket was put together in order to deceive.

 

My two cents.

 

Allan


Never under-estimate the power of prayer.

 

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I agree with Allan on this, 100%.

And by the way, what's the deal with all this "ish" added to words.


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I agree with Allan on this, 100%.

And by the way, what's the deal with all this "ish" added to words.

Late-ish Late-ish 40s. As in no exact date, This one where the coat is worn is presumably from sometime in 1947 (The wear of the Collar Discs on lower lapels start 3 December 1946).

 

post-34986-1339095063.jpg

Ditto this guy, no exact date given, but again the Discs on the lower lapels, and he's photoed at his wedding, just before the split of the AAF to the new separate branch of the AF that occured in September 1947 we should think.

 

.

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There are a couple of anomalies that ought to be mentioned. First, the "combat" patch was actually identified as "Former Wartime Unit" and even units that didn't see combat show up on the right shoulder of veterans. Additionally, the use of the US Army Europe with "Berlin" tab came into being before the official end of World War II and the "occupation sectors" were still considered in the combat zone. So, TECHNICALLY, a soldier serving on occupation duty could end up wearing the USAEUR SSI as a "combat" patch. We should also remember that the four pocket blouse was still limited standard wear into the 1950's.

 

My question about the jacket that started all of this would be WHY would somebody bother to put this together if it wasn't what it is represented to be? There is no "sexy" insignia and the jacket isn't even complete? My guess here is that the patches were worn on this uniform. Perhaps the vet's ribbon bar was added to his old jacket? I really cannot believe that the jacket was put together in order to deceive.

 

My two cents.

 

Allan

I agree Allan, I should of added a more clearer comment in the beginning. For me when see see things for sale like this, a anomalous coat or jacket with unremarkable insignia, we would gather it's not to deceive, one always can say vet piece, and that's ok, but we go by what a GI would wear, in formation not what a vet would wear in 1966 or 1974, like why not get an IKE Jacket :lol: that is if this was indeed worn by a vet and not had stuff added by a store say with insignia laying around.

 

This Berlin Command patch, This type with the BERLIN Tab 1955??, the BERLIN DISTRICT Tab when did that come out in 1951? That's what was the curious thing, the Blue U.S. Army Europe patch based on the Black SHAEF patch that one we know came out in August 1945, and I seem to recall there was a topic where that one was on a IKE as a FWS patch, I forget now.

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Late-ish Late-ish 40s. As in no exact date, This one where the coat is worn is presumably from sometime in 1947 (The wear of the Collar Discs on lower lapels start 3 December 1946).

 

post-34986-1339095063.jpg

Ditto this guy, no exact date given, but again the Discs on the lower lapels, and he's photoed at his wedding, just before the split of the AAF to the new separate branch of the AF that occured in September 1947 we should think.

 

.

Whoops forgot to add image of this other one.

 

post-70300-0-25354800-1364658298.jpg

 

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The thing that stumps me though is that the in the photos shown, those soldiers have former wartime service, thus it can be inferred that their m26 coats were issued to them when they were still standard wear for the entire US Army/Army Air Force/Corps. If the ribbon bar was to be have been worn on this jacket, (and not a later vet or other person add on) that would date this jacket being word to at the earliest 1953. The thing that find most interesting is that a soldier would willingly purchase an m26 service coat instead of an Ike? Just seems like an interesting choice. If they had a WW2 victory ribbon I would not be surprised, but they don't which means they probably entered around 1947 at the earliest. I don't want to stray to far from the facts and start inferring to far away from what we know, but I guess it's possible they wanted to have the more distinctive WW2 period jacket? Or maybe they just preferred the m26 coat? I don't know, definitely interesting though.

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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The thing that stumps me though is that the in the photos shown, those soldiers have former wartime service, thus it can be inferred that their m26 coats were issued to them when they were still standard wear for the entire US Army/Army Air Force/Corps. If the ribbon bar was to be have been worn on this jacket, (and not a later vet or other person add on) that would date this jacket being word to at the earliest 1953. The thing that find most interesting is that a soldier would willingly purchase an m26 service coat instead of an Ike? Just seems like an interesting choice. If they had a WW2 victory ribbon I would not be surprised, but they don't which means they probably entered around 1947 at the earliest. I don't want to stray to far from the facts and start inferring to far away from what we know, but I guess it's possible they wanted to have the more distinctive WW2 period jacket? Or maybe they just preferred the m26 coat? I don't know, definitely interesting though.

Hunt

I hypothesized that these two GI in the circa 47 photos wear the M26 Coat at their weddings because it gave a more formal appearance rather than their IKEs.

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The reality about Ike jackets is that they began to be issued out in 1945 with them having priority of issue in the ETO. Very few units in the Pacific received the Ike jacket, and troops in the US and other areas also were slow to receive the issues. The 4 pocket blouse was still being issued well after the end of hostilities as there simply were not enough jackets in the system to put every soldier in one. It was not until the M1950 field jacket came out that there was truly enough in the supply chain to outfit the army.

The wear out date on OD wool was SUPPOSED to be in 1957 with the advent of the M44 army "business suit," but there were soldiers still wearing OD wool into the 1960's. The 101st Airborne Museum at Ft Campbell has an Ike jacket to a 506th AIR trooper on display tat says it was still being worn in 1962!

 

These 4 pocket blouses didn't just disappear in 1945, they were still around for several years as aa limited standard uniform.

 

Allan


Never under-estimate the power of prayer.

 

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To show that IKEs could and were worn together with the new uniform in formation, this photo of Elvis' platoon in West Germany in late 1958 here we see two Spec 4s wearing them and with the old small rank. The cut off date for the OD Ike for EMs is July 1960. Trying to look for the cut off date for the M26 Coat, no luck, we would imagine it would be around 1947-48-maybe even 49. We do know the OD Wool Overcoat was not only made into the late 40s but also still issued, but this was to trainees, Got to look for a photo in one of my Basic Yearbooks of a photo of the OD Overcoat being worn by Trainees. an early 50s yearbook.

 

I had one once a long time ago,, a 1948 Dated OD Wool Overcoat, a large size one, unissued, no insignia ever was on it, sold it. Dave Thomas, the Wendys founder, in his autobiography there's a photo of him wearing the OD Overcoat on a ship or something heading to Germany after his Basic and AIT in 1950.

 

post-34986-0-93918400-1354219671.jpg

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I hypothesized that these two GI in the circa 47 photos wear the M26 Coat at their weddings because it gave a more formal appearance rather than their IKEs.

 

I didn't mean to come off like I was saying your reason for sharing the photos to be wrong, so I do apologize if I came off kinda harsh with my words. I meant to say that I found it interesting as this coat shows no prior WW2 serivce.


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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The reality about Ike jackets is that they began to be issued out in 1945 with them having priority of issue in the ETO. Very few units in the Pacific received the Ike jacket, and troops in the US and other areas also were slow to receive the issues. The 4 pocket blouse was still being issued well after the end of hostilities as there simply were not enough jackets in the system to put every soldier in one. It was not until the M1950 field jacket came out that there was truly enough in the supply chain to outfit the army.

The wear out date on OD wool was SUPPOSED to be in 1957 with the advent of the M44 army "business suit," but there were soldiers still wearing OD wool into the 1960's. The 101st Airborne Museum at Ft Campbell has an Ike jacket to a 506th AIR trooper on display tat says it was still being worn in 1962!

 

These 4 pocket blouses didn't just disappear in 1945, they were still around for several years as aa limited standard uniform.

 

Allan

 

Thank you for the information Allan, I will say how likely would it have been for one of these to be issued in the 50's? And that tidbit about the soldier wearing an ike jacket into the 60's is fascinating! How likely would it have been for this soldier to get issued a 4 pocket instead of an Ike? I guess im reading too much into it and maybe he just preferred the 4 pocket style?

 

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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To show that IKEs could and were worn together with the new uniform in formation, this photo of Elvis' platoon in West Germany in late 1958 here we see two Spec 4s wearing them and with the old small rank. The cut off date for the OD Ike for EMs is July 1960. Trying to look for the cut off date for the M26 Coat, no luck, we would imagine it would be around 1947-48-maybe even 49. We do know the OD Wool Overcoat was not only made into the late 40s but also still issued, but this was to trainees, Got to look for a photo in one of my Basic Yearbooks of a photo of the OD Overcoat being worn by Trainees. an early 50s yearbook.

 

I had one once a long time ago,, a 1948 Dated OD Wool Overcoat, a large size one, unissued, no insignia ever was on it, sold it. Dave Thomas, the Wendys founder, in his autobiography there's a photo of him wearing the OD Overcoat on a ship or something heading to Germany after his Basic and AIT in 1950.

 

post-34986-0-93918400-1354219671.jpg

 

That's an interesting photo for sure. I guess it wasn't as uncommon as I though for the wool uniforms to be worn late 50's and 60's

 

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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That's an interesting photo for sure. I guess it wasn't as uncommon as I though for the wool uniforms to be worn late 50's and 60's

 

Hunt

This is the EM Eisenhower Jacket now, the officers, that's different, they had to buy the new AG44 uniforms as early as 1956-57,this photo is from late 1958, even so, the wear of the OD IKE's became less and less, probably up to a point that they could not be worn in formation even before the cut off date in 1960.

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This is the EM Eisenhower Jacket now, the officers, that's different, they had to buy the new AG44 uniforms as early as 1956-57,this photo is from late 1958, even so, the wear of the OD IKE's became less and less, probably up to a point that they could not be worn in formation even before the cut off date in 1960.

 

Makes sense for officers, they do get paid more!

 

Just makes me wonder how long this "new" Army uniform will last...

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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Makes sense for officers, they do get paid more!

 

Just makes me wonder how long this "new" Army uniform will last...

Hunt

You mean the current "Pinks and Greens"?

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I didn't mean to come off like I was saying your reason for sharing the photos to be wrong, so I do apologize if I came off kinda harsh with my words. I meant to say that I found it interesting as this coat shows no prior WW2 serivce.

I didn't even notice that :lol: I was just stating for the record my deduction. With these coats, they really stopped being worn after VJ Day, not even sure if they were even issued after a certain point after 1947 to trainee's. 1947 is the year of significant changes in uniforms in the Army, the Doolittle Board changes, OD Neck ties, OD web waist belts etc, in example prior to all this officers wore OD and khak shirts with shoulder loops, EMs did not, now all ranks wore shirts with shoulder loops, EMs see OD HERE HERE and HERE

 

And a Khaki one in this case a quality Tropical Worsted Wool type that in the past would only be worn by officers, now EMs could buy the set if they liked HERE.

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You mean the current "Pinks and Greens"?

 

I do...


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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I didn't even notice that :lol: I was just stating for the record my deduction. With these coats, they really stopped being worn after VJ Day, not even sure if they were even issued after a certain point after 1947 to trainee's. 1947 is the year of significant changes in uniforms in the Army, the Doolittle Board changes, OD Neck ties, OD web waist belts etc, in example prior to all this officers wore OD and khak shirts with shoulder loops, EMs did not, now all ranks wore shirts with shoulder loops, EMs see OD HERE HERE and HERE

 

And a Khaki one in this case a quality Tropical Worsted Wool type that in the past would only be worn by officers, now EMs could buy the set if they liked HERE.

 

Yeah I knew there was a lot of changes like that, part of why I collect WW2 uniforms, I like the old fashioned ways!

 

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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Yeah I knew there was a lot of changes like that, part of why I collect WW2 uniforms, I like the old fashioned ways!

 

Hunt

After VJ Day, one see's them rarely and that being worn usually by discharging vets. The coat was like Allan said, a Limited Standard, not sure how long, troops returning home stateside as a unit seem to have only the IKES, and even these units that stayed active stateside for a bit into 1946, like the 4th and 5th Infantry Divisions, the IKEs became standard, no more leggings either.

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After VJ Day, one see's them rarely and that being worn usually by discharging vets. The coat was like Allan said, a Limited Standard, not sure how long, troops returning home stateside as a unit seem to have only the IKES, and even these units that stayed active stateside for a bit into 1946, like the 4th and 5th Infantry Divisions, the IKEs became standard, no more leggings either.

 

Makes sense, Post WW2 US Army was much different than Pre-WW2 and a new look definitely could help solidify that new image!

 

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2 and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1958-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

 

^^ PM ME!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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The big difference in the issue of Ike jackets is that they went to the ETO first and relatively few Pacific theater veterans received one prior to discharge. Even with the 1947 uniform changes, the four pocket was still being issued and worn, especially in the National Guard and other reserve components. There wasn't a switch that got flipped on a certain day when all four pocket blouses went by the wayside. They were still being worn into the Korean War period.

 

Allan


Never under-estimate the power of prayer.

 

donation2007.gif

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The big difference in the issue of Ike jackets is that they went to the ETO first and relatively few Pacific theater veterans received one prior to discharge. Even with the 1947 uniform changes, the four pocket was still being issued and worn, especially in the National Guard and other reserve components. There wasn't a switch that got flipped on a certain day when all four pocket blouses went by the wayside. They were still being worn into the Korean War period.

 

Allan

With all due respect Allan, I never seen photos of the coat being worn in the early 50s, that's the early 50s we're talking about, not the 45-47 even 48 period, which we know photos show the coat being worn, if worn in the early 50s, maybe if as a Honor Guard/Color Guard thing perhaps (Again haven't seen a photo of that, if I did I can't remember) only the overcoat as mentioned, and those were trainees. I seen at least one ROK wearing the M26 coat, a one legged vet, a ROK Sergeant,, this indication the M26 Coat may have been issued to the ROK Army in some numbers. OD Wool Overcoats too maybe, at least one or two photos shows that some elemts the Turkish Brigade certainty were issued the GI OD Ovecoats when they went up front in the fall and winter of 1950.

 

My understanding with the is the IKE, while the were issued first in Europe is simply because there was no requirement for a Wool Dress Uniform, at least in the winter of 44-45 in the Pacific. But by the summer of 1945, all these troops, officers and men had were HBT stuff, and perhaps a set of Khakis. When the invasion of Japan was already imminent, with Operation Olympic slated for November 1945, Operation Cornet March 1946 we can only imagine that huge stocks of winter uniform items began to shipped out there, where? well the Philippines we should think for one because the bulk of our Pacific Army was there and they would sail from there to invade Japan, then Okinawa, as a fair share of Army Divisions were there as well as three Marine Divisions, not sure where the three Marine Divisions that were on Iwo Jima were slated to stage from, but where ever it was they would need to re equipt, they would all need it, cause Japan is a temperate region, and they have winter weather, they would need field jackets, overcoats, shoepacs, gloves etc etc, Along with these I'm sure for Army, while sending out a load of M26 Coats and their corresponding Service and or Garrison Caps, but that the M44 Jacket had to sent out as well, I would wager more M44s than M26s, simply because it was decided that the M44 was a new de facto Dress item.

 

I've seen this stated here on USMF several times that the M26 Coat was issued to vets returning from Japan and not IKEs, and we would agree that it was somewhat common, but we seen quite a few Pacific Vets wearing IKE. as HERE and or photos of Pacific Vet IKEs in collections, as HERE, and HERE but we conversely seen more that a few ETO-MTO Vets in the M26 Coats as well, so only deduce that, yes the M26 was common to a certain extent with Vets coming home from Japan, but would it be as individuals, or whole units? many full divisions eventually left as units bound for Hawaii and the West Coast.,

 

You would see it the IKE on troops on occupation duty in 1945 into 1946, so one good guess is that any M26 Coats that were sent out were issued out to discharging men, with the units remaining on active duty receiving priority issue of the IKE. The IKEs seem to be issued in significant numbers even the reserve components too by 1948, here's one group from the Florida National Guard in early 1948 wearing the IKEs. I have a 27th Infantry Divison yearbook of 1948,but go figure the Unit photos are from the summer of 1948 so all individual unit portraits of the men are in there Khakis.

 

post-1761-0-49246600-1389887480.jpg

 

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