Pegasus6 Posted March 9, 2020 Share #1 Posted March 9, 2020 Hey all, Painted helmets are always a tricky thing... esp during WWII in the ETO. But lets have a good discussion on this one that I picked up. I wish this one could talk... I'd like to get opinions, thoughts, please support your thoughts though, I want to help rejuvenate some of the discussion of old. No "Fake repro saw it at a show last year". So I snagged this off ebay. FS, FB 098A, Chinstrap and bales were field repaired, this helmet sat in a "rust bucketed" stack for little before being kept. 1. My first question has anyone seen this done before? Similar to the 4th ID Where the Cloverleaf was ordered painted over after Normandy... Anyone know of the Subdued Insignia being used? have one? seen a photo? That helps date this a bit by itself. IMHO one theory: 1. This helmet has the early shell, and what appears to be the small high painted 2nd Infantry Division Helmet decal, and then subdued final paint job. 2. This leads me to believe this is a Normandy period combat helmet and worn into another campaign. Or its original owner at said later period (this is where the partial paint occurs) the remnants of the old 2ID is scrapped off The original painted insignia is gone, the new owner applies a decal 2nd ID but small type (this is same size as Normandy still) . A partial repaint was needed at this point to cover the remnants of the 1st painted Insignia. 3. The decal and helmet gets what appears to be a field replace bales, and chinstraps due to welds, and added later style straps. At this point it receives a clean coat of that familiar WWII light green paint it covers everything. 4. The helmets still in the 2nd, needs a repaint, the final owner decides to leave the remaining painted 2 ID Decal as an outline thus "Subdued" as we now call it effect. 5. Helmet is stacked at discarded (stress crack), and rust bucket till being found, and without history, Just speculating what might have gotten this helmet to be the way it is... Thoughts please? Plenty of photos coming VR Peg6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus6 Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share #2 Posted March 9, 2020 pics 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus6 Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted March 9, 2020 another round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus6 Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share #4 Posted March 9, 2020 another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus6 Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share #5 Posted March 9, 2020 and stress crack final, No anchor mark, Black Steel hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted March 10, 2020 Share #6 Posted March 10, 2020 That shade of green paint with that "sheen" screams Korean War to me. The repainted WW2 pieces I have seen have a lighter shade of OD and no sheen. Best ABN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus6 Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share #7 Posted March 10, 2020 That shade of green paint with that "sheen" screams Korean War to me. The repainted WW2 pieces I have seen have a lighter shade of OD and no sheen. Best ABN Thank you for the first thought! Okay, so if I hear you right, The Helmet would have lived all the way through 1 full WWII repaint over remaing decal, and then it was in the stores for 2nd ID during Korea, it was Re-painted with a flare for the Helmets decal/history or for some reason when it was repainted/ subdued and issued? One problem tho, this shade is not the standard WWII, however as you see it was done prior to it going into storage. look at the Rim how its pulled away from storage, POST that dark paint... I just want to be sure I understand how it fits into a possible scenario. Thank you! VR Peg6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted March 10, 2020 Share #8 Posted March 10, 2020 Repaints can be subjective...plus light or flash can also be misleading. Here is one from my collection....WW2 woen and repaonted.The flah and out door light make it shine more than in hand but there is still a gloss to it. Helmet was worn by a member of the 113th Cav and they were never in Korea so I always look at the repaints a bit differently.Just cant pigeon hole the repaints as 1950s repaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted March 10, 2020 Share #9 Posted March 10, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus6 Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted March 10, 2020 113thhelm1.jpg Doyler, good to see you my friend, Sorry for my being mostly out of the picture. My wife unexpectidly passed in December... So Just on a soul journey right now a little. I think we are getting stuck on the outter layer to much. It was a painted normandy era FS FB, that was then patch painted, a Decal Applied, then a army WWII Green overpaint over it all.... The helmet then shows sign of this dark green, but that's where it sat used last, because that dark green was applied before stacked, it would have never been issued like that and broke in Korea? The overpaint lends itself still to a WWII Origin... Due to the beginning layers and time line of the layers straps, storage. -Thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus6 Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share #11 Posted March 10, 2020 Btw it does not have the sheen from the light. its a pretty muted dark pine. Similar to a WWII Repaint on an original ETO CPTS helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted March 10, 2020 Share #12 Posted March 10, 2020 Doyler, good to see you my friend, Sorry for my being mostly out of the picture. My wife unexpectidly passed in December... So Just on a soul journey right now a little. I think we are getting stuck on the outter layer to much. It was a painted normandy era FS FB, that was then patch painted, a Decal Applied, then a army WWII Green overpaint over it all.... The helmet then shows sign of this dark green, but that's where it sat used last, because that dark green was applied before stacked, it would have never been issued like that and broke in Korea? The overpaint lends itself still to a WWII Origin... Due to the beginning layers and time line of the layers straps, storage. -Thoughts... Sorry to hear that hope you and your family are well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus6 Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted March 10, 2020 So again the question is a 3X used 2nd Infantry Division, 1 time painted insignia, 1 time decal added, then overpainted, then subdued 2nd ID. So shes a 3X a 2nd ID helmet. Thoughts on how she got that way. Thank you all. VRPeg6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhcoleterracina Posted March 10, 2020 Share #14 Posted March 10, 2020 I only own one division painted M-1. I bought this helmet, shell only, in the mid 1970's at a swap meet for $2 or $3. I posted this over ten years ago so maybe those photos don't even exist. You can see that this has a manganese rim so at best it is late WW2 and some thought it could be KW. I've never researched the numbers inside the shell. So for whatever it's worth, here is another 2nd Division helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhcoleterracina Posted March 10, 2020 Share #15 Posted March 10, 2020 closeup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhcoleterracina Posted March 10, 2020 Share #16 Posted March 10, 2020 inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhcoleterracina Posted March 10, 2020 Share #17 Posted March 10, 2020 bars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhcoleterracina Posted March 10, 2020 Share #18 Posted March 10, 2020 side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus6 Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share #19 Posted March 12, 2020 Thanks for some thoughts and views gents. Any of our Moderators/helmet experts want to throw some thoughts? VRPeg6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now