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Can anyone identify this 18th-19th century ground dug bayonet?


kfields

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At least it has the shape of a bayonet! I got this at a small antique store near Greenville, Ohio. The story is that one of the local fellows (now deceased) found this bayonet near where the Treaty of Greenville was signed in 1795. Back in the 60's this fellow was allowed to dig and metal detect near where an America fort had been built in the late 1700's. The fellow supposedly kept good records but those records were all pitched when he died about 10 years ago and his collection sold separately. :o

The blade portion is triangular, about 3/4 inches wide. Also the blade portion is about 9 3/4 inches long. The blade portion doesn't appear to have been broken off. Too much corrosion for any identifying marks to be seen.

My question is can anyone identify it based on the images I have provided?

I paid very little money for it so it won't be a disappointment if it turns out to be something completely different.

Thanks!

Kim

 

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Really cool Kim. A bit far back from the time frame that I play in, so I'm not any help. Still can't wait to read what others here have to say.

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The blade portion certainly has a bayonet look to it, but the "socket" portion doesn't match anything I have seen in that era. I am leaning toward the idea of it being architectural iron. Maybe ornamental fencing. It has a look of having been attached to something flat like wood or concrete. We can hope it was part of the fort itself. I hope someone can come up with something better than that.

Marv

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Thanks for the replies. I hadnt thought about some of those possibilities. I suppose it could be part of a spiked fence or some machinery.

On the other hand, I've done a little nosing around on the internet. Rather than being a bayonet, I wonder if it maight be the blade portion part of some version of a "polearm". Hope springs eternal ha ha!

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I don't know what it is, but somehow it keeps reminding me of the remains of a US M1941 Johnson bayonet. It does not show the key feature I am familiar with of a 18th or 19th century bayonet i.e. a tubular socket.

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I don't know what it is, but somehow it keeps reminding me of the remains of a US M1941 Johnson bayonet. It does not show the key feature I am familiar with of a 18th or 19th century bayonet i.e. a tubular socket.

 

I thought the same thing. Here's a pic of why it looks similar. Keep in mind the Johnson blade configuration is totally different.

 

I also agree with kfields. I looked online for pike heads and views the images. All of them shown had much larger areas (sockets) where the pole would attach.

Marv

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It's similarities to a Johnson bayonet is intriguing.

I found some more information about the guy that found this. His name is Tony Deregnaucourt. He was an amateur archeologist and did a lot of digging, including Ohio sites associated with the late 18th century.

Living near Greenville, Ohio, he did digging where the old Fort Greenville was located which means he dug in where are now located a lot of residential homes. He passed in the 2000's and it appears much of his personal collection was parted out and sold off.

He wrote some books about his digs so I think I'll pick some of those up, especially the ones about his digs at and around the Ohio frontier forts of the late 1700's. He was also associated with the Garst Museum in Greenville so I think I'll take a trip over there this weekend.

What I really need to do is find a photo of this metal object firmly identifying it or maybe a second one of these in a display at the Museum. Of course lacking any sort of identification, it remains a random piece of rusted iron that sorta-kinda resembles something more interesting!

Kim

A member of this fine site since December 16, 2006....Member # 60

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I very carefully knocked out the gunk that had collected in the "hilt" part of this item. Looking at it from both sides, here is what I see:

 

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Well I made it over to the Garst Museum over in Greenville Ohio. A very nice museum! Lots of artifacts on display and very well done.

The photo below shows a similar to mine (but not the same) bayonet shaped folding pike on display used by riflemen at the end of the 1700's and found in the Greenville area. The blade on display appears to be similar in length, shape and size to the one I have. The hilt part of the pike is somewhat different to the one I have.

Unfortunately there was no one at the Museum who knew anything about the displays so no one to ask.

Kim

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I don't know what it is, but somehow it keeps reminding me of the remains of a US M1941 Johnson bayonet. It does not show the key feature I am familiar with of a 18th or 19th century bayonet i.e. a tubular socket.

Maybe it's for the rare M1841 Johnson flintlock musket?

 

Mikie

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Maybe it's for the rare M1841 Johnson flintlock musket?

 

Mikie

 

Now that's just mean mean mean.! :lol:

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Garandomatic

Well if it ain't a folding pike, it missed a heck of a good chance at being one!

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

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WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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Maybe it's for the rare M1841 Johnson flintlock musket?

 

Mikie

 

The rest of it rusted away! :D

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From your new pictures, I'd say it is probably the remains of an 18th century spring loaded bayonet from a blunderbuss.

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suwanneetrader

From your new pictures, I'd say it is probably the remains of an 18th century spring loaded bayonet from a blunderbuss.

 

Best Guess so far the hinge pin where it would have pivoted is in the right place. Here is a Greenville Silver Peace Medal I've had for over 40 years. Richard

 

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Items marked "Marquet, Marquett, or Marquette"

 

 

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From your new pictures, I'd say it is probably the remains of an 18th century spring loaded bayonet from a blunderbuss.

Kilian,

I think you nailed it!

From a brief internet search, here are photos of a British made blunderbuss with spring loaded bayonet circa 1790.

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Visually everything seems to compare favorably to my rusty specimen.

Kim

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It will not be possible tot indentify the maker. From its limited provenance I think it is reasonable to assume it was British made and dates to the last quarter of the 18th century, used during or shortly after the Revolutionary War.

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The things that turn up on this forum and the knowledge of the members is just amazing.

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Brian Keith

Really interesting artifact! I also thought it resembled a Johnson bayonet, so much I reached over and picked up one of mine that happened to be nearby to look. Of course, the Johnson has a muzzle ring that this doesn't, but does bear an uncanny resemblance. Looks like it has been identified by Killian's suggestion. Tony Deregnaucourt is a familiar name. I may have met him at one time or another, I think I may have a book or two of his somewhere. I live only about 40 miles from Greenville, 11 miles from Ft. Recovery, OH. The early western frontier history is thick around here. The site of "St. Clair's Defeat", now Ft. Recovery is where, on Nov. 3, 1791, the US Army suffered it's worst military defeat. Approximately 25% of the Army was killed by Native Americans. I recall one of those, "I wish I had" moments. About 25 years ago, a local collector's estate was auctioned off. He had a wide area of interest and very large collections of stuff. One of the items he had was a relic condition Charleville pattern musket w/bayonet that a farmer had found in his field in the Ft. Recovery area. I didn't buy it. I did not appreciate it's historical value then as I would now.

Thanks for posting it.

BKW

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Congratulation kfields. I'm so glad you were able to get a satisfying answer to the "whatsit" question. It really looks close to the blunderbuss example. I'm very happy for you. It's so cool.

Marv

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Thanks for everyones responses/ideas! I was very happy and surprised to get such a solid determination of "what it is" in less than a week!

This is a great site!
Kim

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