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kaliman0352

WWI 3/5 Uniform under question

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From what I can see this is an army pattern jacket, not the forest green pointed cuff Marine pattern. There is some evidence Marines wore army OD fighting in France backache of supply issues, but by the time the over seas stripes and shoulder patch were sewn on, I think all replacements to Marine tunics had been complete. For my collection, I wouldn’t buy an army pattern tunic believing it to have WWI Marine provenance unless it came direct from family and even then, would likely expect it to show some combat wear and probably devoid of patches. Just my two cents.


I am eagerly collecting Pre-WWII USMC material. Any Marine Corps Span Am era, WWI, Banana Wars, or China Marine related material is especially sought after.

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Thanks for the replies guys! I actually found an older post on this forum from 2010. Its the same uniform but without the 1stSgt and Service stripes.

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Could you post a picture of the one on the forum.

+1 Im sure youre not the only one who will meet paths with this uniform


Check out my eBay page, I sell military insignia and just about anything else I come across

Link: https://www.ebay.com/sch/fitzkeemilitaria/m.html?item=223497878518&hash=item340982fbf6%3Ag%3ASs4AAOSw-llcxhqe&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

 

Please check out my web page as well for more items for sale

 

https://fitzkeemilitaria.com/

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From what I can see this is an army pattern jacket, not the forest green pointed cuff Marine pattern. There is some evidence Marines wore army OD fighting in France backache of supply issues, but by the time the over seas stripes and shoulder patch were sewn on, I think all replacements to Marine tunics had been complete. For my collection, I wouldn’t buy an army pattern tunic believing it to have WWI Marine provenance unless it came direct from family and even then, would likely expect it to show some combat wear and probably devoid of patches. Just my two cents.

 

Hello Kevin,

 

Sometimes the tunic is in good condition...

Here an exemple with John B. Steinel... Discharge in France...

This army tunic with over seas stripes and shoulder patch are legit.

This uniform can exist.

 

 

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From what I can see this is an army pattern jacket, not the forest green pointed cuff Marine pattern. There is some evidence Marines wore army OD fighting in France backache of supply issues, but by the time the over seas stripes and shoulder patch were sewn on, I think all replacements to Marine tunics had been complete. For my collection, I wouldn’t buy an army pattern tunic believing it to have WWI Marine provenance unless it came direct from family and even then, would likely expect it to show some combat wear and probably devoid of patches. Just my two cents.

 

Maybe because he was discharged in France he didn't received the FG tunic...

 

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You have a good point Loic thanks. It is exactly that kind of documentation, identification and provenance I would want to see before buying one of these army pattern USMC tunics. Although it does beg the question why if they were discharged in France before the forest green tunics arrived, would there be a shoulder patch on there? The patches didn’t come out until after the Armistice. Perhaps for parades or events back in the states I suppose. Once again, your uniform or one like it with the research would be the one to look for and rare as hens teeth I am sure. You have a wonderful collection, thanks for sharing. Kevin


I am eagerly collecting Pre-WWII USMC material. Any Marine Corps Span Am era, WWI, Banana Wars, or China Marine related material is especially sought after.

donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2019.gif

 

 

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Good Evening,

 

This was listed for sale. Im a big 3/5 collector and would absolutely love for this to be legit but I have a feeling it may not be. Thoughts ?

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/N9U7rSX

 

Thanks

 

 

Threads do no good for future use if we don't post pictures of the item in question.

 

Here is the original item being asked about.

 

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USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)

US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04)

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post-33000-0-22279400-1582984101_thumb.jpg


USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)

US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04)

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

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http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/84833-ww1-usmc-35-army-jacket/

 

Here is the original posting. It now sports 1stSgt stripes and (upside down) service stripes.

 

I cant speak to the authenticity of the Battalion patch or uniform in the first place. Just my observation that its the same one.

 

 

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USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)

US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04)

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

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I'm of the opinion that nearly all of the Marines that served in the AEF arrived home in 1919 wearing various patterns of the Army issued service coat, most with the respective shoulder patch and overseas service chevrons sewn on.

 

I base the above assertion on the following:

 

  • Sometime between December 1917 and February 1918 General Pershing decreed that the Marines were a part of the AEF, and as such, they would wear the same uniform as all of the other members of the AEF, i.e. U.S. Army olive drab service dress. After that, the USMC forest green uniform was no longer authorized as an article of equipment for the AEF. Thus, Marine forest green clothing of all types were no longer requisitioned nor shipped overseas to France. Therefore, after the existing supplies of forest green clothing in France were exhausted (the quantities of which were likely very small) Marines, whether they liked it or not, were forced to wear Army olive drab until forest green clothing could once again, be reissued, presumably, that was upon their return to the United States.

 

  • Other reasons for abolishing the Marine forest green uniform in France include the following: two different styles and colors of service dress in the AEF were necessary. Having two colors also placed an unwanted burden of the AEF's already overworked supply system. Plus, it was thought that the Marine forest green color was easily confused with that of Germany's field gray uniform at a distance by ground troops during the confusion of battle, and from observation balloons, as well as aircraft.

 

  • in addition, nearly every period photo taken of a U.S.Marine during the occupation of Germany that I've seen, the subject of the photo has been wearing olive drab, Army issued clothing, again, most with the appropriate shoulder patch sewn on.

Marines, however, continued to arrive overseas wearing their distinctive forest green uniform. However, as soon as the clothes on the Marine's back wore out, they were replaced with Army issued olive drab. It's possible that some Marines may have had forest green garments stored inside their sea-bags at the time of their departure for the United States in 1919. Whether or not if they would have been allowed to don them, likely depended on the whims of the commanding officer, as well as the rigid and inflexible inspectors that scrutinized every departing AEF organization before it was allowed to board a transport ship bound for the United States.

 

As an aside, the majority of troops, if not all (USMC & Army), were issued new uniforms at the large embarkation camps shortly before they sailed for home. Those uniforms would most definitely have been Army issued olive drab. This was done to present a homogeneous appearance and to prevent the returning veterans from looking like a ragged bunch of bums.

 

With that said here is a press photo dated August 3, 1919, of 5th Marines, on the transport "George Washington", nearing the port of Hoboken, New Jersey. As near as I can tell, all but one Marine is wearing an Army issued olive drab service coat. There is one man visible who has USMC style pocket pleats on his breast pockets. However, his coat does appear to be olive drab in color.

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I agree with you !

Thanks for sharing your opinion and these photos ! ;)

Loïc.

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Always amazed by the knowledge and pictures that you guys come up with! And Loic, your collection is even more amazing !

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I use to own this, when it looked like the above, minus the additions. Probably sold it in 2010. Sucks to see this done and reminds me why I never really got into uniforms as they seem to prone to being messed with.


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I use to own this, when it looked like the above, minus the additions. Probably sold it in 2010. Sucks to see this done and reminds me why I never really got into uniforms as they seem to prone to being messed with.

Hope the original post didnt come across as an accusation! Its an awesome uniform in its own right. Sucks someone felt the need to ruin it.

 

Im always on the hunt for 3/5 stuff so seeing it was almost heartbreaking.

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Hope the original post didnt come across as an accusation! Its an awesome uniform in its own right. Sucks someone felt the need to ruin it.

 

Im always on the hunt for 3/5 stuff so seeing it was almost heartbreaking.

Not at all.

 

Just felt the need to provide the background. It's wild to see it again. I always wondered when I would see an item that I previously owned come back altered. As I've seen this happen numerous times on the Forum. Who's selling this?


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Another section of the photo in which enough of the coat can be sen to identify it as being Army olive drab.

I'm with Brian on this---from my studies it appears many/most Marines returned to the states in Army uniforms--note these pictures from a really battered yardlong taken at the St Aignan camp for Casual Company 140 dated March 1919---all Marines and all apparently wearing Army uniforms---and from the lack of shoulder patches, chances are most of these guys were wounded at one time or another and did not go to Germany with the 2nd Division--

s/f

Al

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AFB
"When in doubt, Go cyclical"

 

For more information on

"In a Strange Land: The American Occupation of Germany 1918-1923"

"Let's Go! The History of the 29th Infantry Division"

"To Hell with the Kaiser: America Prepares for War 1916-1918 Volumes 1 and 2"

"Desert Uniforms, Patches, and Insignia of the US Armed Forces"

"Forgotten Soldiers of WWI: America's Immigrant Doughboys"

"Play Ball! Doughboys and Baseball During the Great War"

go to

https://www.amazon.com/author/alexanderf.barnes

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