IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share #76 Posted January 10, 2009 Wow Bob, that really paints a powerful visual image.... Thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted January 10, 2009 Share #77 Posted January 10, 2009 Whoa! A picture of him actually wearing the uniform!?!? It just doesn't get any better than that now does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightenIrish35 Posted January 10, 2009 Share #78 Posted January 10, 2009 wow wow and wowww...i dont think words can describe the beauty of this uniform and the history of the Pilot who was a contributer of early aviation.As others have stated that the ww1 aviation isnt the collecting genre and they need a nice example for there collection,i will have to second that one.This is truely a great piece of history and im glad that its in good hands!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted January 11, 2009 Share #79 Posted January 11, 2009 Steve, Did you know this? Major Wingate was the XO of Field #8 when training was at its peak. He is credited for the successful training of Pursuit Pilots prior to being sent to the front. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share #80 Posted January 11, 2009 Whoa! A picture of him actually wearing the uniform!?!? It just doesn't get any better than that now does it? Waaaaaaay cool...huh! wow wow and wowww...i dont think words can describe the beauty of this uniform and the history of the Pilot who was a contributer of early aviation.As others have stated that the ww1 aviation isnt the collecting genre and they need a nice example for there collection,i will have to second that one.This is truely a great piece of history and im glad that its in good hands!!! Thanks a lot Michael, it has been lovingly taken care of all these years, and it is definitely the centerpiece of my collection. Major Wingate was the XO of Field #8 when training was at its peak. He is credited for the successful training of Pursuit Pilots prior to being sent to the front Well...well....well. This gives credibility to the statement made in a 1930's newspaper that featured Maj. Wingate, it credited him with training 75% of the pilots who saw combat...thus saving a lot of lives - a true hero IMHO. It will be interesting research to investigate his pre-war aviation-related contacts and experience. I can't imagine that someone could attain the title of instructor, and be given such a great responsibility if they were not one hell of an experienced pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share #81 Posted January 11, 2009 John and all interested, To expand a bit on what you uncovered: Credit for the following information is due to the Aerodrome forum. The student's progression through these fields was typically as follows: 1. Start at Field 1 2. Walk over to Field 2 3. Progress to Field 3 4. Go to Field 9 for introduction to the Nieuport 18M (Graduates either proceeded to Field 10 for 2-seater training or to Field 4 for pursuit training 5. Field 4 for spiral turns 6. Field 5 for taxiing, taking off, and landing and wing slips 7. Field 6 for advanced acrobatics (NO) 8. Field 9 for training with Nieuport 15M with 80 HP engine 9. Field 7 for training with Nieuport 15M with 120 HP engine 10. Field 8 for aerial combat training 11. Field 14 for machine gun training Aircraft used at each field were as follows: Field 1: Morane rouleurs (preliminary training) Field 2: Nieuport 23M, 80 HP dual control aircraft Field 3: Nieuport 23M, 80 HP single seat (solo) aircraft Field 4: Nieuport 18M, 80 HP (Feb-July 1918 only. After that part of Fields 5 & 6). Field 5: Nieuport 15M, 80 HP and 120 HP aircraft with instruction in taxiing, taking off, and landing Field 6: Nieuport 15M with 120 HP engine with instruction in advanced acrobatics Field 7: Formation flying and patrol tactics using 120 HP Nieuport 15M aircraft Field 8: Introduction to Aerial Combat using 120 HP Nieuport 15M aircraft Field 9: Nieuport 18M, 80 HP from 1 July 1918 to the end of the war Field 10: DH-4 aircraft for observation pilot training (opened late in the war) Fields 11 and 12: Not put into operation. Field 14: Machine gun training using Nieuport 24 aircraft Operating the 3rd Aviation Instruction Center required a large number of organizations. Serving at Issoudun were the following U.S. Aero Squadrons: 10th, 21st, 26th, 30th, 31st, 32nd, 33rd, 35th, 37th, 43rd, 101st, 149th, 158th, 173rd, 257, 369th, 372nd, 374th, 640th, 641st, 642nd, 644th, 801st, 802nd, and 1104th I think this grouping will yield much more as the research developes; there are so many possibilities that radiate from Major Wingate's far reaching and significant contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share #82 Posted January 11, 2009 Here is an example of a Niueport 15M. Sorry to repeat post a photo, but as a comparison, here once again is the example of a Nieuport from Training Field No. 8 that was included in the grouping (from post #47). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted January 12, 2009 Share #83 Posted January 12, 2009 To think that this guy trained so many of the aviators of his time is what really makes this grouping so stunning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share #84 Posted January 12, 2009 To think that this guy trained so many of the aviators of his time is what really makes this grouping so stunning! Scott, I agree, and that is what struck me about this grouping. It is not an exaggeration to say that he was responsible for a great number of enemy kills. With the instruction, tactics ans maneuvering that he provided, he enabled our boys to be the victor and not the victim....an unsung hero as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted January 12, 2009 Share #85 Posted January 12, 2009 IQ, Have you seen the information on his grave? I couldn't find it in this thread. PINECREST MEMORY GARDENS, Pelham, Mitchell County, Ga. From the water tank on U.S. 19N, in Pelham, go approximately 2.2 miles north. The cemetery is located on the right side of the highway. After entering the driveway there is a road that circles within the cemetery. I have divided the cemetery into two parts. The first being the outer circle and the second the inner circle where the statue is located. Standing on the circular drive (at the entrance) face US 19 and start on the right hand side next to the highway, then go from left to right. Personal remarks are enclosed in ( ). This survey was completed on 28 July 2001. NAME BIRTH DEATH REMARKS Wingate, Harry L. Sr. 28 Nov 1894 19 Sep 1977 Maj., USArmy, WW I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted January 12, 2009 Share #86 Posted January 12, 2009 By the way, your not interested in reading some of his thoughts on the quality of Air Service officers, are you? Check pps 338 and 339 http://books.google.com/books?id=C9MKOoPgD...esult#PPA338,M1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share #87 Posted January 12, 2009 IQ,Have you seen the information on his grave? I couldn't find it in this thread. PINECREST MEMORY GARDENS, Pelham, Mitchell County, Ga. From the water tank on U.S. 19N, in Pelham, go approximately 2.2 miles north. The cemetery is located on the right side of the highway. After entering the driveway there is a road that circles within the cemetery. I have divided the cemetery into two parts. The first being the outer circle and the second the inner circle where the statue is located. Standing on the circular drive (at the entrance) face US 19 and start on the right hand side next to the highway, then go from left to right. Personal remarks are enclosed in ( ). This survey was completed on 28 July 2001. NAME BIRTH DEATH REMARKS Wingate, Harry L. Sr. 28 Nov 1894 19 Sep 1977 Maj., USArmy, WW I Hi Erick, Thanks very much, all I had was the name of the cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share #88 Posted January 12, 2009 By the way, your not interested in reading some of his thoughts on the quality of Air Service officers, are you? Check pps 338 and 339 http://books.google.com/books?id=C9MKOoPgD...esult#PPA338,M1 Not really... . That is great! I would expect no less than that from a person in his capacity...you tell 'em how it is Major!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escadrille Posted January 12, 2009 Share #89 Posted January 12, 2009 Outstanding grouping! The Issoudon crowd is often overlooked as to their importance. Getting a grouping to a senior-level instructor is quite a find. I find it interesting that the wing pattern is the same one I have seen on an ID'd 27th aero grouping. The 27th pilot was posted to the 27th right before the end of the war and had been trained at Issoudon. Thanks for the posting. Charlie W. Oh yes, .......like some of the other members have said....welcome to the world of collecting WW1 aviation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share #90 Posted January 12, 2009 Outstanding grouping! The Issoudon crowd is often overlooked as to their importance. Getting a grouping to a senior-level instructor is quite a find. I find it interesting that the wing pattern is the same one I have seen on an ID'd 27th aero grouping. The 27th pilot was posted to the 27th right before the end of the war and had been trained at Issoudon. Thanks for the posting. Charlie W. Oh yes, .......like some of the other members have said....welcome to the world of collecting WW1 aviation. Hi Charlie, Thanks, I love it, and I am quite pleased to be infected with the aviation bug! That is fascinating information on the 27th pilot, and would lead to the reasonable assumption that he and the Major had their wings made by a local tailor/artisan that was near this base....wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share #91 Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks to several members for forwarding me this document and a few others as well. This is a letter written by then Cpt. Wingate to Col. Gerrell during the occupation regarding his perceptions about inefficiencies observed during the war. It is very interesting to get a look into the false perceptions that cavalry, or infantry officers were qualified to perform efficiently and effectively in the fledgling Air Service with ill preparation/training in the specifics of this very different branch of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share #92 Posted January 16, 2009 And the cover page to the packet containg the other statements on "Most Important Lessons Learned During the Present War" from other officers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted January 16, 2009 Share #93 Posted January 16, 2009 Some nice stuff to add to this grouping. As I was told by another forum member: It's good to see the research never end on an item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share #94 Posted January 16, 2009 Some nice stuff to add to this grouping. As I was told by another forum member: It's good to see the research never end on an item. Yes, and this grouping has many unexplored possibilities. I am going to pursue several avenues of information. A call to the university of Georgia is forthcoming, and I also would like to find out where he learned to fly and who he know pre-war. Also, his son was a WWII veteran, and I suspect that the B-17 posted here has some connection to his service. I would like to thank John Cooper for giving me a ring a while ago to give me a bit of information concerning Aero Club membership after the war. He does not appear in the listing, but that would make sense in relation to his business ventures (tobacco, insurance), and the time he spent in the Georgia Legislature. I am quite sure that this will provide me with years of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted January 17, 2009 Share #95 Posted January 17, 2009 Steve, My pleasure since I have a list of the folks now I think Maj. Wingate will provide much fun as you research his service. Not sure if I mentioned this but I think as an interesting branch of research would be to read memoirs, and unit histories that may include informationa dn maybe even some credit given to Maj. Wingate for the training he provided and its impact on aerial victories or just the skills to evade being shot down by the HUN! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share #96 Posted January 17, 2009 Steve, My pleasure since I have a list of the folks now I think Maj. Wingate will provide much fun as you research his service. Not sure if I mentioned this but I think as an interesting branch of research would be to read memoirs, and unit histories that may include informationa dn maybe even some credit given to Maj. Wingate for the training he provided and its impact on aerial victories or just the skills to evade being shot down by the HUN! John John, Wouldn't that be fantastic! Good thought, and definitely an area worth exploring. With all of the pilots that were subject to his instruction, there has to be a few references by successful aviators that would attribute their success to the Major...but then again, a lot of these guys had pretty big egos, so you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattle Posted January 17, 2009 Share #97 Posted January 17, 2009 It keeps getting better and better. Thanks for showing it Steve !! Stephan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share #98 Posted January 18, 2009 It keeps getting better and better. Thanks for showing it Steve !! Stephan Your words are very timely my friend, I discovered the below only minutes ago. I feel like an idiot....in all of my excitement, and fondling of this tunic...I didn't even think to look behind the maker label until now....BEHOLD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted January 18, 2009 Share #99 Posted January 18, 2009 Now that is nice! Say Steve when are you going to chage that avatar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted January 18, 2009 Share #100 Posted January 18, 2009 Your words are very timely my friend, I discovered the below only minutes ago. I feel like an idiot....in all of my excitement, and fondling of this tunic...I didn't even think to look behind the maker label until now....BEHOLD!!! Fondling??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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