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Question on September 1943 KIA PHM ?


dpast32
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Hello Folks, I have a question that at 1st thought may appear quite academic, but I've looked through much of m reference, & just seem to turn up anything ? My question is; 'Would it be somewhat irregular for a September 1943 KIA Purple Heart to be without a rim number' ? [ Just for the record, he was an SWPA casualty. As far I can discern, he was a straight KIA, not DOW or MIA, which might have possibly delayed his Heart being authorized. ] As I thought back on many of my Heart's, I can't seem to recall much rhyme for reason regarding whether a rim number is present or not. The only thing that prompted me to ask here was the fact of It's KIA date does seem rather early, & I've always 'assumed' the the earlier Hearts were more likely to be numbered, as opposed to not ? If anyone has any information, & or comments regarding this issue, I would deeply appreciate hearing from them.

THANK YOU

 

Best, dpast32

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tdogchristy90

I'm going to take a shot at this, but an expert might give more insight. From my understanding it was all somewhat random. While the earlier Hearts were indeed numbered and later war Hearts forgo the number system, they simply just pulled from the pile and you received what you received.

 

You also have to remember just because he died in 1943 doesn't mean his heart was given out that fast. Maybe it took time to get it to his family and as such it's a later issue Heart. Do you have any paperwork from his file that dates when it was presented to the family?

 

I've seen Hearts given out in 1945 which were numbered, for example.

 

Maybe this will help and someone else can give more clarity.

.

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It is not an issue to have a Purple Heart to a 1943 KIA without a number. I am assuming it is hand engraved?

 

Kurt

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Hi Guys, Many thanks for the replies. Yup, it's hand engraved, at least as far as I'm concerned. The Heart I'm referring to us the Adam Dickson Jr., Heart that was just offered for sale here on the Forum. I have NO problem as far as it being legitimate, I was just curious as to why it was not rim #'d being such an early award ? The photos are most likely still available here, but if not I have them saved.

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As we've all learned when dealing with Purple Hearts, many times there's no 'firm pattern' as far as rim numbers, broach types, & engraving. Yes, there are 'general patterns', although most could not be deemed as firm. As far as rim #'s go, this Post 's example should illustrate that fact nicely. Here's an September 1943 KIA that was not numbered, yet I have an USMC KIA from July 1966 that is rim numbered !!

 

Best, dpast32

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As we've all learned when dealing with Purple Hearts, many times there's no 'firm pattern' as far as rim numbers, broach types, & engraving. Yes, there are 'general patterns', although most could not be deemed as firm. As far as rim #'s go, this Post 's example should illustrate that fact nicely. Here's an September 1943 KIA that was not numbered, yet I have an USMC KIA from July 1966 that is rim numbered !!

 

Best, dpast32

I have had several Korean War and VN war early number types hearts to kias ! Guess what ever was at had ?
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I'm going to take a shot at this, but an expert might give more insight. From my understanding it was all somewhat random. While the earlier Hearts were indeed numbered and later war Hearts forgo the number system, they simply just pulled from the pile and you received what you received.

 

You also have to remember just because he died in 1943 doesn't mean his heart was given out that fast. Maybe it took time to get it to his family and as such it's a later issue Heart. Do you have any paperwork from his file that dates when it was presented to the family?

 

I've seen Hearts given out in 1945 which were numbered, for example.

 

Maybe this will help and someone else can give more clarity.

.

100 % correct. They just pulled a heart from the shelf without even bothering to look for a rim#.

 

..... and 75 plus years later our collector community is in search for a pattern which doesn't exist.

 

Regards

Herman

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I'm going to take a shot at this, but an expert might give more insight. From my understanding it was all somewhat random. While the earlier Hearts were indeed numbered and later war Hearts forgo the number system, they simply just pulled from the pile and you received what you received.

 

You also have to remember just because he died in 1943 doesn't mean his heart was given out that fast. Maybe it took time to get it to his family and as such it's a later issue Heart. Do you have any paperwork from his file that dates when it was presented to the family?

 

I've seen Hearts given out in 1945 which were numbered, for example.

 

Maybe this will help and someone else can give more clarity.

.

100 % correct. They just pulled a heart from the shelf without even bothering to look for a rim#.

 

..... and 75 plus years later our collector community is in search for a pattern which doesn't exist.

 

Regards

Herman

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