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Badge Collection Military Government Police Fire - Some help needed too


mds308
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Cobra 6 Actual

Thanks, jmd62. This is an obsolete USDOJ Immigration and Naturalization Service seal:

 

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Tonomachi

Just saw this on eBay which I'm guessing is actually a cap badge for San Francisco Naval Station maybe?  The photos are bad as it looks like a scanner was used instead of a camera.

 

 

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ocsfollowme

Post 252

 

It appears that it is San Francisco Naval Shipyard. Several on worthpoint. 

 

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Tonomachi
4 minutes ago, ocsfollowme said:

Post 252

 

It appears that it is San Francisco Naval Shipyard. Several on worthpoint. 

 

397496776_ScreenShot2022-03-25at7_22_45AM.png.790efbf3604057e241f328b372ee6820.png

Thank for the correct meaning of S.F.N.S.  It looks like the one on Worthpoint is an actual chest badge based on the rear pin back assembly. 

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Cobra 6 Actual

Here’s an obsolete “Retired” badge for a staff member at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC):

 

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The current version would have the Department of Homeland Security seal as the central design instead of the Department of the Treasury seal.

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Cobra 6 Actual

This one is in the shape of an old “High Eagle” Helmet front:

 

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Cobra 6 Actual

“Fire Line” badges; which grant permission to insurance investigators, reporters, photographers, etc., to enter past fire lines are extremely collectible:

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Cobra 6 Actual

This is a beautiful obsolete Inaugural badge from a virtually unknown organization, the Special Inspector General for the “Troubled Asset Relief Program”:

 

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Cobra 6 Actual

Here’s an obsolete set in lucite:

 

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ATF became part of the Department of Justice in 2003.

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Cobra 6 Actual

Here’s another badge that has something different than the traditional eagle top:

 

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Sand Flea
On 2/3/2022 at 6:14 AM, Cobra 6 Actual said:

Thanks, EE87. They’re both priced too high, in my opinion. Not to say that someone that really wanted one of those badges wouldn’t pay the listed prices. But, not me. Meanwhile, here’s a Marine Security Guard badge:

 

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Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I could tell me if this is an unofficial badge or one that would be worn while in uniform. Any current or former Marine Security Guards out there?

This is a legit badge. When I was in Thailand during a Cobra Gold Operation, I visited the Embassy and the Marines at the front entrance were wearing these badges on their Chucks.

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Cobra 6 Actual

Sand Flea, thanks very much for that information. Approximately what year was that Cobra Gold exercise, please?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have an interest in the original 1917 design of the U.S. Dept. of State Special Agents' Division badge. I recently came across Cobra 6 Actual’s post here on U.S. Militaria Forum with an image of a restrike of this badge in a post of 10 July, 2021 (#36). It is understandable that this was not recognized as a late 20th century restrike, the federal badge collecting community is only aware of 2 original badges. I would like to post a couple images of an original badge, some poor quality images of the other known example, and some of the later uses of that design by the Dept. of State and especially the Diplomatic Security Services (DSS). For additional information, see my thread started on 2 December 2016: "US Dept of State Special Agent's Badge 1917" in the "United States of America" section of the "Rest of the World: Medals & Militaria" portion of Gentleman's Military Interest Group (https://gmic.co.uk/topic/69858-us-dept-of-state-special-agents-badge-1917/).

 

5841c5ed1a55a_USDptStatebadgeobverse.JPG.836d98595da2b0d8ff22cd8377022382.JPG.a8615a8cba5e3ae0a1b3a8cc977ab5cf.JPG

 

This is the obverse of one of 2 known original 1917 (or 1916, the DSS refers to the design as 1916 but the first badges were issued in 1917) design badges of the U.S. Dept. of State Special Agents' Division. This image provides a scale for this badge. As with Cobra 6 Actual's post, most images of the original badge design that can be found online use photos of restrikes.

 

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Reverse of the same badge (#12) showing the inscription that is present on the 2 known original 1917 badges. None of the restrikes or more recent commemorative badges using some of the design elements have this inscription on the reverse.   

 

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Above is a low-resolution & unfocused image shared from the collecting community of the only other known original 1917 U.S. Dept. of State Special Agents' Division. This badge is in the possession of the DSS. I am in the process of obtaining a better quality image of this badge that was recently sent out for "restoration" to be used in a lobby display of the recently renovated DSS headquarters.

 

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This is the reverse of this same badge showing the same inscription as on badge #12. Although the number is very hard to read, I have done some sleuthing and re-contacted the individual who shared the original photo with me. This is badge #1. That would have been issued either to Joseph M. "Bill" Nye in 1917 (Department of State’s first Chief Special Agent, served from 1917 to 1920), or to the second Chief Special Agent Robert C. Bannerman in 1920, or possibly passed from Nye to Bannerman in 1920. 

 

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Above is a high-resolution image of a restrike of this badge with black enamel. Almost all (all?) examples most folks have seen are restrikes, possibly made as early as the 1970s, but more likely from 1989 when the Dept of State probably authorized a restrike for the bicentennial celebration of the 1789 ratification of the US Constitution and establishment of the Dep. of State. Many (most?) of these were encased in Lucite, at least some with the obverse obscured by a colored backing. The restrike design of the obverse differs somewhat from the original and the quality of the engraving is not as fine as the orignals’. More recent restrikes have blue enamel, and there is some variation in how these have been executed. 

 

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Image from the U.S. Dept. of State document (History of the Bureau of Diplomatic Security of the United State Department of State, October 2011, Global Publishing Solutions; figure "Service Badges used by Special Agents (1917-present), and by DS Diplomatic Couriers and DS Security Engineers (present)" on pg v.). The example used illustrate the "original design", furthest left, is a restrike version of this badge (note the black enamel) rather than an original (From: https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/176589.pdf). 

 

large.1926812144_USDeptofStateSpAgntsDivbadgerestrike.jpg.99908067bb27d4fdfefedf68f7a7b140.jpg.633af81c36027a92c1a1f3a1d88e6b6b.jpg

 

Probably a more recent restrike of the original badge design. The blue enamel is common on several of these recently created restrikes. As noted, many of these were encased in lucite with a blue background. This example was either removed from the encasement or obtained by a DSS official without the lucite covering and has apparently been unfortunately glued onto some kind of background. As a further example of some of the variations in recent designs of some of these replica badges, I have heard from a colleague that a collector with a second "restrike" piece in lucite removed it from the encasement to discover that it was cast, not die struck, and there was no engraving - the design was a lot less detailed because it was not engraved but had a vinyl sticker placed on the plain obverse.

 

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Above is a low-resolution image of a miniature badge or pin that was supposedly issued by the US Dept of State Diplomatic Security Service. This image comes from an eBay auction of 5 December, 2010 archived on the Worthpoint.com website (https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/diplomatic-security-1916-145729249). The description states that it may be silver plated ("polished silver") with blue enamel. The auction description gives a measurement of the width as 1 inch, but does not provide the height dimension. The date when this commemorative badge was issued is not provided, but I am pursuing some leads to try and get some additional information. 

 

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Above is an illustration below is from an article by Julia Paccone, "DSS unveils new commemorative badge at U.N. General Assembly", State Magazine, In the News, December, 2021 (https://statemag.state.gov/2021/12/1221itn04/) that discusses the new new commemorative badge. It "is only authorized by the director for use during special occasions, such as UNGA, the Olympics, and other events where DSS agents protect dignitaries and participants. DSS Director Carlos Matus authorized agents to utilize the DSS commemorative badge for the first time during UNGA 76" (the 76th Session of the United Nations General Assembly), Sept. 21-27, 2021. 

 

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Above is a cropped image of the U.S. Department of State, Diplomatic Security Service's new commemorative badge for use during special events, from the same illustration in the State Magazine, In the News, December, 2021 article. 

 

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Above is another image of the obverse of badge #12, taken by a professional photographer, fro better comparisons with the engraving on restrikes. 

This badge, numbered 12, probably came out of the New York office of the US Dept. of State, set up by first Chief Special Agent Joseph M. “Bill” Nye in ~ 1917 or 1918. 

 

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And a professional photo of the reverse of this same badge as well. 

 

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The link to Cobra 6 Actual's post of July 2021 showing the image of a restrike of the 1917 design U.S. Dept. of State Special Agents'Division badge is: https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/336271-badge-collection-military-government-police-fire-some-help-needed-too/&do=findComment&comment=2860159

 

 

The photo of the badge I've said is #1 is known to some federal collectors. The number was considered unreadable. I looked at the poor quality photo of the reverse of this original 1916/1917-design badge recently, comparing enlarged views with badge #12 (see below). The number "12" on the high-resolution photos of badge #12  has the "1" oriented above the "B" in "BADGE". The "2" is centered over the "AD". It is really tough to see anything on that part of the photo of the other original badge. However, there is no number over the "AD", indicating this badge probably only had a single digit number. It is not a "curvy" or "wide" number such as 2, 3, 4, 5, or 8 (as conservative examples, the calligraphic forms of 6, 7, or 9 also seem unlikely to me). In enlarged viewing of the area of the badge where the number is (unfortunately made even more difficult by the tarnish/dirt accumulated underneath the pin), there may be a "bracketed serif" (supportive curved line, in this case at the base of a calligraphic stroke) on the number as is seen in the style of the "1" on badge #12. This led me to contact the individual with the photograph, a knowledgable collector, to ask his more informed opinion. He wrote me that he: "retrieved the original photo and using a magnifying glass I can say without a doubt it is badge number 1."

 

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Above is the a cropped and enlarged photo of the reverse of badge #12 showing the calligraphic style of the numerals and the orientation of the number "12" in relation to the word "BADGE" for comparison with the lower resolution image below. 

 

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Cropped and enlarged image from the poor-resolution of the other original US Dept of State Special Agent's Division badge. This image can be zoomed slightly, but clearly shows that only one number is present on the reverse of this badge, centered of the "B". It may show the bracketed serif comparable to the form seen on number "1" of badge #12 above. What is visible of a vertical line did not appear, in my opinion, likely to be any number other than "1" (although with a dearth of other badges, the calligraphic forms for numbers 3-9, and zero are unavailable for comparison). There are much clearer recent photographs the obverse and reverse of this badge showing the number "1" relatively clearly. If I can get permission to reproduce them I will post them here. 

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A couple of DSS Agents told me the small "commemorative" pin shown here (as the 5th-to-last photo in my post of May 11th) is just an item from the Diplomatic Security Special Agents Association's (DSSAA) gift shop and online store (https://dssaa.org/store-back-end/ols/products). That small "badge" is not any form of official or commemorative DSS badge. It is a lapel pin. It is no longer identified as available online, but similar cufflinks that use a modified design of the original 1916/17 design as a DSS emblem are listed. 

 

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The above 2 images are from a DSS Agent, showing the form of these cufflinks using elements of the original 1917 badge design. Some of the cufflinks are coated in a clear epoxy (as is the example above), others are not. In addition to the cufflinks, the online store offers an insulated tumbler emblazoned with a version of the original badge design (updated as a DSS badge), and a coin with a similar DSS badge logo (not currently available) based on the original Special Agents' badge design. 

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I apologize for posting a non-badge photo here. However, with only 2 currently known examples of this very rare original badge, some of my research looks at the continued historical importance of the original 1916/17 badge design for the modern DSS. As part of my documentation of the use of the original 1916/17 U.S. Dept. of State Special Agents' Division badges' design, here is another use of the iconography adapted by the current U.S. Dept. of State Diplomatic Security Service. This form of the design is different from those used in other promotions of the historical link to the formation the Special Agents' Division (restrikes, the new DSS commemorative badge for use during special events, logo adaptations in DSS publications, as well as the cufflinks and currently unavailable coin from the DSSAA gift shop). 

 

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This is an image of the 20 oz. tumbler available from the DSSAA online shop (https://dssaa.org/store-back-end/ols/products/new-stainless-steal-tumbler). This uses a very good adaptation of the original 1917 badge design for this Diplomatic Security Service Special Agent logo. The emblem is based on the form of the design used on the restrikes of the original badge (compare with the 5th photo in my initial post of 11 May here and the image posted by Cobra 6 Actual on 10 July, 2021, #36, on this thread), modified for the DSS. One of the members here of the U.S. Miitaria Forum wrote me that he loves this design item. Cheers!

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While I wait on permission to post the better photos of badge #1, I have just couple examples of the original 1916/17 badge design used on historical documents published by the Diplomatic Security Service. 

 

large.974584694_USDeptofStateDSSbadgelogo1.jpg.d90581db2d056a37efde2d06cf731ff2.jpg.fdf5eb2c3b321045e908824be603068f.jpg

 

Above is the motto for the DSS using the original 1916/17 badge logo from page 2 of the online pdf document: History of the Bureau of Diplomatic Security of the United States Department of State, printed October 2011, Global Publishing Solutions, First Edition. (https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/176589.pdf). This is the same document that illustrates a series of historical badges for Special Agents that I previously included, in a cropped form, on this thread as the 6th photo in my initial post of May 11 (#268) here. 

 

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A red, white & blue version the same logo based on the original 1916/17 Special Agents' Division badge shown in black & white in the first image of this post. This image is from an archived US Dept of State website(from a previous administration) including a link to the same online article, "Diplomatic Security : Then & Now" that also uses the black & white format shown in the first photo of this post above. This version in red, white & blue appears to have specifically been used  in celebration of the 2016 Department of Diplomatic Service Centennial and is now part of archived information that was released from Jan 20, 2009 - January 20, 2017(https://2009-2017.state.gov/m/ds/c66769.htm). 

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  • 3 weeks later...
easterneagle87

Current Facebook market place offering. 

 

WW2 Platoon Commander N.A.T.T.C Ward Island Corpus Christie Tex.

NATTC Badge.jpg

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