Jump to content

Great Grandfather's old WWI and Spanish American War guns


Recommended Posts

My father, who died this past August, had in his possession some very old guns that we are told had belonged to his grandfather, my great grandfather, from his service in the Navy during the Spanish American war and WWI.

 

My mother having moved to assisted living we will be selling the house at some point in the future and at that time or sooner I will need to learn what I need to do to move these items and store them at my house as family heirlooms. (No ammunition)

 

I expect that I will need to learn what these firearms actually are if I am required to get a permit and license. I am in Massachusetts.

 

If anyone has any information on what the items pictured below are, and the chances that they can be declared antiques, I'd be very appreciative.

 

Other than that I have been told they they all came from the two wars above during my great grandfather's service in the Navy, the only story I have been told is that the pistol if from the Spanish American war and that it was ffrom a Spanish officer that my great grandfather disarmed while in Cuba.

 

I guess it will take a few posts to get them all posted

post-260284-0-41681000-1574624599_thumb.jpg

post-260284-0-40169300-1574624613_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 50
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I'm no expert but tne first picture looks like the Winchester Model 1890 I inherited from my great grandfather, Mine is a .22WRF but I'm told they were also made in .22 LR. Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

f

Link to post
Share on other sites

It appears my son took this photo of the second gun in my second post. I've googled it and the serial number. If I'm finding the right thing then it would be made in 1918.

 

What confuses me is that when I google the Springfield Armory Model 1903, almost all the photos show the wood under the barrel extending almost the entire length but in my photo there is almost foot where there is no wood under the barrel.

 

Hmm.

post-260284-0-92488400-1574634053_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

It appears my son took this photo of the second gun in my second post. I've googled it and the serial number. If I'm finding the right thing then it would be made in 1918.

 

What confuses me is that when I google the Springfield Armory Model 1903, almost all the photos show the wood under the barrel extending almost the entire length but in my photo there is almost foot where there is no wood under the barrel.

 

Hmm.

 

Your Model 1903 Springfield stock has been "sporterized". The stock as well as the upper handguard has been cut. You most likely will find the manufacturer date on the top of the barrel behind the front site.

 

The .30-40 Krag (the first rifle in the second post) has also had the stock cut.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks very much for the help so far! 3 of the 5 ID'd.

 

Interesting about sporterized. If I was a collector or wanted to sell them I'd probably unsporterize them. But neither is actually my goal.

 

What I know of their history is that they were all originally owned by my great grandfather. He served in WWI and I'm told he brought them home after the war. My grandfather was born in 1906 and went into the Navy in 1926 and died in the first couple months of 1942.

 

My uncle tells me that they had not been used any later than 1942. So either my great grandfather or my grandfather sporterized them between the 2 world wars.

 

I am keeping these as part of our family history. They are the only physical artifacts we have of my great grandfather.

 

My family is big on preserving family history.

 

So I probably would want to preserve them as they are.

 

I do need to make sure that as my dad's estate is settled I do what I need to do to legally transport them from my parents old house, which we don't plan to sell right away, to my house and that I can legally keep them for future generations of the family. They would not be used.

 

I don't believe that they were ever registered in Massachusetts. My dad got them from my grandmother over 30 years ago. He took them from Maine to Massachusetts. He told me that he did once take them down to the local police station to inquire if he needed to do anything. The police basically told him not to worry about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Krag has also had the barrel cut and a M1903 front sight added. Leave it as is, not restorable unless you replace the barrel (an expensive process).

The shotgun is a M12 in civilian configuration.

The pistol looks like a Smith & Wesson Top Break Double Action in .44 Caliber, but without SN and better pictures it's just a guess at this point. Look for the markings on the side of the barrel.

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gif





Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that information.

 

M12 Shotgun. I just read was made from 1912 to 1964. Without date or serial number I don't know how to piece together a story.

 

I read that the Smith & Wesson .44 was also made in Spain and used by the Spanish in the Spanish American war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_3#11mm_Orbea_Hermanos_y_Cia._M1884_Sistema_ON%C3%81_(%22S&W_Model_7%22)

 

I guess that link doesn't fully work. It's on the same page under

11mm Orbea Hermanos y Cia. M1884 Sistema ONÁ ("S&W Model 7")

 

Yes with all the stuff with my dad dying and moving my mom to assisted living, getting handle of the estate, I'm getting back to some things like this that I will have to take care of eventually. Next time I have the time over to my parent's house I'll dig them out again and carefully look for and photograph markings, numbers, dates, etc...

 

I go over about every other Sunday just to check the place. I don't always have a lot of time to hang around given 3 kids and a mom to go visit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm wondering if anyone would have an educated guess what these 5 guns individually might be worth? I'll do my own research myself of course but I'm starting with next to zero knowledge. I have no intent to sell them. As I mentioned it's my job to keep them safe to pass along to the next generation of the family. But at some point I'm going to need to inventory anything of value for estate taxes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your 30-40 Krag retails about 250 to 350 if it has a good barrel, Your 1903 is 200 to 450 depending on barrel condition. These are est. base on gun show pricing as I look at a lot of these guns. The Krags are not moving as well as the 1903's. You can both stocks and barrels for the 1903s fairly easy. I had one done a couple of years ago. If the Krags are still original they command a better price. Same with 1903's

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2018.gif

 

 


 


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your 30-40 Krag retails about 250 to 350 if it has a good barrel, Your 1903 is 200 to 450 depending on barrel condition. These are est. base on gun show pricing as I look at a lot of these guns. The Krags are not moving as well as the 1903's. You can both stocks and barrels for the 1903s fairly easy. I had one done a couple of years ago. If the Krags are still original they command a better price. Same with 1903's

 

I think that''s pretty close on the Krag and M1903. The shotgun would be in the range $250-350. The pistol, if Spanish without provenance, around $200 (Spanish pistols don't bring much on the market in the US). Don't know about the .22 may have to look in the Blue Book of Values.

 

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gif





Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks.

 

This question is probably heresy on this discussion board but.... what's the best way to dispose of a small box of old ammunition? I don't know what they are. I'll investigate further before I do anything. Will take pictures. The box is about the size of 3 cigarette packs. Probably fewer than 24 items.

 

My uncle suggests finding a bridge across a river but I'd rather be legal.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks.

 

This question is probably heresy on this discussion board but.... what's the best way to dispose of a small box of old ammunition? I don't know what they are. I'll investigate further before I do anything. Will take pictures. The box is about the size of 3 cigarette packs. Probably fewer than 24 items.

 

My uncle suggests finding a bridge across a river but I'd rather be legal.

Sell it. (Or give it away.) People collect cartridges and accessories just as much as guns. Antique ammunition is highly collectible.

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever the monetary value and/or full nomenclature of the firearms are I would just cherish having my great grandfather's firearms. Personally I would keep and maintain them just as my great grandfather had them. I would learn and document as much as I could about him and the firearms and keep them in the family. To me, the intrinsic value would be priceless.

Just my opinion. Everyone has to do what's best for them. Good luck with your firearms.

Ken

donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less."

GEN Robert E. Lee

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever the monetary value and/or full nomenclature of the firearms are I would just cherish having my great grandfather's firearms. Personally I would keep and maintain them just as my great grandfather had them. I would learn and document as much as I could about him and the firearms and keep them in the family. To me, the intrinsic value would be priceless.

Just my opinion. Everyone has to do what's best for them. Good luck with your firearms.

Ken

 

Thanks. There is no doubt that I'll keep the firearms to pass along to the next generations when the time comes. I just need to do it legally.

 

As to the old ammo, I do not want ammunition in the house. That I need to find a way to get off of my hands but also legally.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Try this:

http://www.massreloading.com/ma_ammunition_regulations.html

 

I would go to the nearest police station and just ask in a hypothetical situation.

 

In the interim I would consider having a friend who has a MA firearm permit store the ammunition and do all the research on the matter I could. Someone above mentioned there is a market for old ammunition and I agree, there definitely is. In a state like MA just need to, as you know, dot ALL the i's and cross ALL the t's.

 

Difficult to imagine MA was a hot bed for the American revolution and freedom, and ultimately the 2nd Amendment.

 

Good luck,

 

Ken

donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less."

GEN Robert E. Lee

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So we have taken mom home from assisted living to her old house for Thanksgiving.

 

I had an opportunity to look further.

 

First .44 revolver that is a Spanish made knock off that I linked to earlier.

 

Imprinted on top is the Spanish model name. (photo below) Serial number 1072 (Photos below)

 

Next the .30-40 Krag has a serial number of 242290 which makes it's manufacturing date 1900. (Photo below)

 

The M12 Shotgun serial number is 215524 making it manufactured in 1919. Have not attached photo for this.

 

 

More posts to come I got quite a surprise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-260284-0-38528400-1574993394_thumb.jpg

post-260284-0-19117400-1574993404.jpg

post-260284-0-07652300-1574994436_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Winchester Model 1890 .22 Short rifle has a serial number of 599761 making it produced between 1917 and 1919. (no photos)

 

Next I went to go find the ammo box I mentioned. My memory was faulty. It was larger than I recalled. Inside was a square maroon box. Inside the box. OMG another gun. The photo below looks to be a Cold Model 1908 Vest Pocket 25 caliber pistol with clip and clip with bullets in it!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Model_1908_Vest_Pocket

 

And a box of bullets. Serial number 121730 making the manufacture date 1915. (Photo below)

 

More to come.

post-260284-0-94867600-1574995494.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.