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The “Holy Grail” of Raider helmets


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I really don't see why some people think they can state the helmet is bad with such certainty, merely because they have the feeling that it should display more wear. If the soldier would have gotten wounded in theater, the helmet was shipped to the states and was stored properly it definitely could look like this. Yes, one should have a healthy dose of suspicion, but again, there is no reason to state that it is faked with such certainty, and we should consider it honestly.

 

On the disintigration of burlap: I've got pieces of original ww2 scrim from a vehicle net that was left behind during the war in Europe (I live in Europe). It was stored in a barn over 60 years and is still in good condition.

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I really don't see why some people think they can state the helmet is bad with such certainty, merely because they have the feeling that it should display more wear. If the soldier would have gotten wounded in theater, the helmet was shipped to the states and was stored properly it definitely could look like this. Yes, one should have a healthy dose of suspicion, but again, there is no reason to state that it is faked with such certainty, and we should consider it honestly.

 

On the disintigration of burlap: I've got pieces of original ww2 scrim from a vehicle net that was left behind during the war in Europe (I live in Europe). It was stored in a barn over 60 years and is still in good condition.

 

I agree completely with your basic premise. The OP has made the same basic premise. The rationale is this...an exceedingly rare helmet, from a rare unit, survives the war with exceedingly little combat wear, and is then found with exceedingly little post-war storage wear. Can this scenario happen? Of course. But 4 times? And all with no provenance?

 

I have no idea of this helmet is authentic or not. Looking forward to the OP's pics. I truly hope it is. The fact that it has 3 clones that all look they they were done by the same hand, and survived the war in the same condition, and show the exact same post-war patina, and all with provenance throws up some serious red flags for me, personally. I have a feeling that it won't be long before the next one shows up...then the next...and the next.

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Let me be very clear , none of the helmets where found at the same time and none have the same characteristics.

 

The one on lux is a complete different helmet - and with regards to no provenance, one of them is named I believe.

 

With regards to the next one coming up , I bought my one from Steve at M1 helmet depot 2-3 years ago.

 

So this My second in 3 years

 

People who have had collections for the past 40 years etc are letting go of there items due to age or passing away.

So you will start to see new items coming available which have been lost in collections for years.

 

 

Needed to get that straight with everyone

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

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https://combatusedmilitaria.com

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Here are some questions that might help.

 

Did the seller have a table?

 

Was the seller walking around?

 

Did anyone recognize the seller?

 

How old was the seller ?

 

Four very rare Raider helmets appear at once.

 

They all look like the same artist made them.

 

But they don’t look like they are almost 80 years old whether in a garage or show case.

 

I wonder if the 29th helmet is good?

 

I wonder if it’s who I think it is?

 

thoughts many of us share I'm sure especially the last...

 

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thoughts many of us share I'm sure especially the last...

 

 

Then do tell the fellow community of honest collectors here if you know who they are who is creating forgeries.

 

Standing by and watching things happen to people is as bad as doing the act yourself.

 

So tell all

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

New website

 

https://combatusedmilitaria.com

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Then do tell the fellow community of honest collectors here if you know who they are who is creating forgeries.

 

Standing by and watching things happen to people is as bad as doing the act yourself.

 

So tell all

 

nah, I think I'll let them speculate on their own thanks but curious enough to follow this thread til you get it [helmet].

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I’m going to rest my hat on this:

 

Owen pointed out the biggest inconsistency.

 

The inside of the helmet is a rust bucket.

 

How is that consistent with the rest of the helmet?

 

How is that consistent with being stored away correctly for 70+ years?

 

Helmets get rusty like that because they were stored in the wrong place for years.

 

These are facts.

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nah, I think I'll let them speculate on their own thanks but curious enough to follow this thread til you get it [helmet].

Serious question, why bring it up then? If you think the helmet is faked and you have an idea who may have done it why not call them out and spread awareness? I'm not sure what keeping this accomplishes other than keeping some people out of the loop on who's creating fakes and stirring the pot in this thread (which has already ran in circles for the past 3 or 4 pages).

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Im going to rest my hat on this:

 

Owen pointed out the biggest inconsistency.

 

The inside of the helmet is a rust bucket.

 

How is that consistent with the rest of the helmet?

 

How is that consistent with being stored away correctly for 70+ years?

 

Helmets get rusty like that because they were stored in the wrong place for years.

 

These are facts.

And this will be looked at up close and in hand when I get it.

Ive already been over this and agreed that that is something that needs looking at. No one is disputing that, in the same vein due to the space between the liner and helmet moisture can build up also.

 

So we will have to wait

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

New website

 

https://combatusedmilitaria.com

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Hello,

On the screen caps posted by Justin, we can clearly see there is absolutely no wear/use/age to the burlap cover, the sewing and the string; even the knot on the last picture has the string all fluffy, which is not a good sign. Looks like some typical Johnny Kash work. Does someone have a picture of the 29th helmet it was sold with ?

_________________________

 

Admin Edit: for those who have no clue as to who "Johnny Kash" is, it is Jammie Kashetta. It would be best for our members to come out and say who they think it is rather than trying to be coy as several posters on this thread have been.

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Yes moisture builds up.

 

The rust in this helmet is consistent with a leaky roof dripping right into it.

 

Or left upside down full of water for many years.

 

Thats not consistent with just a little moisture.

 

Since 1968 I have dug out hundreds of helmets from peoples houses.

 

For 30 years in PA I liquidated estates.

 

The only time Ive seen rust that old and thick is when water, not moisture, got into the helmet.

 

That is consistent with poor storage.

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1) Let me be very clear , none have the same characteristics.

 

2) and with regards to no provenance, one of them is named I believe.

 

 

3) People who have had collections for the past 40 years etc are letting go of there items due to age or passing away.

So you will start to see new items coming available which have been lost in collections for years.

 

 

Needed to get that straight with everyone

 

1) I could be wrong and I apologize if I am, but I thought on page 2 you said that all 4 known examples have the "exact same cover and the exact same wear" or something to that effect? I'll go back and look. So besides the pics that seem to show very similar helmets, I was just going what you yourself said.

 

2) To me, a simple name in a helmet is not provenance. An unbroken chain of custody is provenance. But that's an entirely different debate.

 

3) Fair point. I'll guess we'll see when the next 4 Raider helmets emerge with no real provenance from old collections all in exceedingly pristine condition with no combat or storage wear if we still going to rationalize their existence with the "well maybe the guy painted his helmet on one day and got shot the very next" argument or will we begin to question the odds of a highly unlikely scenario playing itself out 8 times.

 

Looking forward to your pics. And in the end as long as you are happy with it is all that matters.

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I really don't see why some people think they can state the helmet is bad with such certainty, merely because they have the feeling that it should display more wear.  If the soldier would have gotten wounded in theater, the helmet was shipped to the states and was stored properly it definitely could look like this. Yes, one should have a healthy dose of suspicion, but again, there is no reason to state that it is faked with such certainty, and we should consider it honestly. 

 

On the disintigration of burlap: I've got pieces of original ww2 scrim from a vehicle net that was left behind during the war in Europe (I live in Europe). It was stored in a barn over 60 years and is still in good condition.  

 

It’s called experience.

To answer your question.

 

 

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Helmets making it home to the States in the hands of enlisted men are an exception and certainly not the rule. Officers had more success with this or if a helmet saved your life and was no longer serviceable then I expect you could bring it home. Most were simply handed in and repainted for further issue or sold off to foreign armies.

We don’t see any of these helmets and then 4 show up in a space of 3 years - yes collectors are dying and helmets showing up but demand for helmets has never been higher.

Treat every one with suspicion. These are turning up as regular as JKASH’s M2’s that his special picker used to find with alarming ease.

 

It could all be legit but as a community it is only right that we question it.

Collector of Fixed bail M1 Helmets

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"The dreams of Empire lure the hearts of Kings - and so men die" Burma, 1944

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Its called experience.

 

This is something which is greatly lacking among many collectors who post here... along with explanations of negative assessments and simple decorum.

"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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