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The “Holy Grail” of Raider helmets


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Kammo,

 

I think the answer is obvious, who wouldn't be elated to share what they have acquired. And he has the high resolution photos to view, we do not... And you can see rust bleeding through at least I believe I see that.

 

Paint also has a way of preserving fabric, you can see rust through. The top of the liner may not show, as the liner wont sit flush against the steel with the cover in place. Thus theres a pocket between steel and liner, for moisture to build up and cause the inner shell rust. One thing to consider.

 

-Peg6

I know that.....

However , this is an extreme case of a VERY large claim and must be looked at in a point by point study.

Not just look at my new helmet that came from one of Englands biggest dealers whos track record in selling fakes is well known to the community.

This dealer is well known selling Fake German......US.......RAF........US Civil war items for decades.

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I'll bet dean will even use a black light for us. The fact is creating a fake or a museum quality replica that can pass the litany of "age" is very difficult when you look at the entirety of the helmet. Period paint, dust, dirt, rust, even with chemical reactions its extremely difficult to do. And yes there are stories about dare I say Jkash or Egreen from the past but, those were not raiders, and were just painted steel. add fabrics into the mix this is a different ballgame.

 

Excited for you Dean.

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I'll bet dean will even use a black light for us. The fact is creating a fake or a museum quality replica that can pass the litany of "age" is very difficult when you look at the entirety of the helmet. Period paint, dust, dirt, rust, even with chemical reactions its extremely difficult to do. And yes there are stories about dare I say Jkash or Egreen from the past but, those were not raiders, and were just painted steel. add fabrics into the mix this is a different ballgame.

 

Excited for you Dean.

Thankyou my friend , Im Excited too for this one and will do a full photo diary on it with photos and video.

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

New website

 

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I know that.....

However , this is an extreme case of a VERY large claim and must be looked at in a point by point study.

Not just look at my new helmet that came from one of Englands biggest dealers whos track record in selling fakes is well known to the community.

This dealer is well known selling Fake German......US.......RAF........US Civil war items for decades.

 

It came from the Max show, there is video footage of it. I dont know there track record for selling german or other items because I dont collect that. But I can tell you this, they dont usually sell a lot of US items.

They couldnt even tell me the liner maker, I dont think there out to sell me a fake.

 

I am still standing by this one

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

New website

 

https://combatusedmilitaria.com

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Kammo, Which dealer are we talking about? If we are going to have people make claims against dealers, lets hear the name... If you are going to use it as a reason why you don't like it.

 

I'm not trying to patronize, I just think we owe it to the community, and to Dean. When we make accusations or thoughts on the these boards, they stick around forever. If and when Dean goes to sell this helmet, its like a credit card transaction. All of this data is stored forever. So if we are going to discuss it. Lets put it all on the table. And I think that's what dean is trying to do. He has shared an amazing looking helmet, he believes is the real deal, and he is looking forward to sharing additional information when in hand.

 

There is nothing weird "" about any of the happenings, or postings, asides your saying there are weird things, referencing sellers, and fakes, and in general Europeans... except that you have not added anything other than opinion without names, or facts in the form of anecdotal evidence. And I say all of this, look how many people are reading this? Dealers/forum sponsors, and high end collectors, as well as a plethora of other members.

 

Vr

Peg6

Retired US Army Officer, OEF Vet, Collector, Owner Renewhistory

 

https://www.renewhistoryrh.com/

 

https://www.facebook.com/RenewHistory

 

https://www.instagram.com/renewhistoryrh/

 

 

 

 

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Kammo, Which dealer are we talking about? If we are going to have people make claims against dealers, lets hear the name...

 

Peg6

Read the thread its plainly visible in black and white.

Do you want me to spoon feed you ?

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You know Dean, you had sold me that the helmet might be real, until you said it came from Regimental's.

 

I have watched them burying fakes into collectors since the mid 80's, when I was going to London once a month to do the show at Camden on Saturdays. As soon as the show was over I would walk over to their shop and just shake my head seeing the fake US WWII & Vietnam items.

 

For thirty plus years I have just shook my head at the items they have buried into people. At one point I got to see some of the creations being made by one of their vendors. It was amazing the details they went to to show use and age.

 

Then just two years ago they sold me a fake 1st model blue deck jacket, the M-42 with the zipper front. I should have known something was wrong as they only wanted $1,000.00 when it should have been priced way higher ( sounds like the helmet deal doesn't it). When I took it back to them within five minutes, their smart arse comment was, " You should have know better". I finally got my money back when I said let's go talk to the management of the OVMS. Instantly the money was handed back to me, and they sold it to someone else who jumped on the low price. Greed sometimes blinds us when we think we are getting a good dea, you should always remember, if it's too good to be true, it probably is. Regimental's went to the extant of letting a cat roll around on the inside and to get the jacket damp and put it away to store it so that it looked like it had just come out of a seabag. They are not stupid.

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You know Dean, you had sold me that the helmet might be real, until you said it came from Regimental's.

 

I have watched them burying fakes into collectors since the mid 80's, when I was going to London once a month to do the show at Camden on Saturdays. As soon as the show was over I would walk over to their shop and just shake my head seeing the fake US WWII & Vietnam items.

 

For thirty plus years I have just shook my head at the items they have buried into people. At one point I got to see some of the creations being made by one of their vendors. It was amazing the details they went to to show use and age.

 

Then just two years ago they sold me a fake 1st model blue deck jacket, the M-42 with the zipper front. I should have known something was wrong as they only wanted $1,000.00 when it should have been priced way higher ( sounds like the helmet deal doesn't it). When I took it back to them within five minutes, their smart arse comment was, " You should have know better". I finally got my money back when I said let's go talk to the management of the OVMS. Instantly the money was handed back to me, and they sold it to someone else who jumped on the low price. Greed sometimes blinds us when we think we are getting a good dea, you should always remember, if it's too good to be true, it probably is. Regimental's went to the extant of letting a cat roll around on the inside and to get the jacket damp and put it away to store it so that it looked like it had just come out of a seabag. They are not stupid.

That is very sad to hear,

But the item was bought at the max show and did not come from them directly. There is a video of them at the max show having bought it, also another member remembers seeing it at the show. They have just sold it as a third party.

 

Thanyou for reaching out to me,

 

Yours

Dean

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

New website

 

https://combatusedmilitaria.com

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Read the thread its plainly visible in black and white.

Do you want me to spoon feed you ?

 

I missed the mention of Regimentals. I apologize for that Kammo. But sometimes yes, I'll take a spoonful with peeled grapes, and a carpet fanner ;)

Retired US Army Officer, OEF Vet, Collector, Owner Renewhistory

 

https://www.renewhistoryrh.com/

 

https://www.facebook.com/RenewHistory

 

https://www.instagram.com/renewhistoryrh/

 

 

 

 

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That is very sad to hear,

But the item was bought at the max show and did not come from them directly. There is a video of them at the max show having bought it, also another member remembers seeing it at the show. They have just sold it as a third party.

 

Thanyou for reaching out to me,

 

Yours

Dean

 

And so Regimentals is out of the equation per third party purchase. Back to square one.

Retired US Army Officer, OEF Vet, Collector, Owner Renewhistory

 

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And so Regimentals is out of the equation per third party purchase. Back to square one.

Im

Trying to get info on the gent at the max show he brought it from

 

- Dean

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

New website

 

https://combatusedmilitaria.com

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Glad to know that about Regimentals. I specialize in WW1 UK militaria (30 years) and they are one more to cross off the list as fake peddlers. Reminds me of all of the "real" indian War militaria that was going to UK and European buyers in the 1980's. Now those collections are being liquidating and much of it is out and out fake or heavily messed with. Funny a lot of it then went into the Harrisburg PA gateway to the west museum scandal. When it came time to liquidate that mess none of the major historical memorabilia auction houses wanted to touch it. Back to these helmets, like Manny said, does it looks like it was dug out of a veterans barn or shed with the heavy layers of dirt, mold, rat turds, cigarette smoke that it should, and that is just from years of storage. These things have to show their age, let alone the near impossibility of a raider helmet with this type of camo being kept by the serviceman and brought back from a theater of war. Anyone who has trapsed around heavy foliage in training or an operation with a helmet camouflaged like this, will have it torn to pieces especially that twine. And to have paint covering the knots showing that there has not been any flexing to the twine. It doesn't look right. Let alone no provenance, no chain of custody. Surfaced at a show? Though I admit that I have had the good fortune of buying many of my high end items from primary sources, ie the vets themselves or their estate sale, i realize that many great things surface at shows. However the best stuff usually never sees the top of the table.

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Seeking Model 1895 and 1902 Named Officer coats as well as Spanish American War Tropical Uniforms.
Also pre WW2 marine uniforms. Always pre-1945 Colorado National Guard Items wanted! Also seeking Rhodesian

Uniforms and Gear used by Americans in the Rhodesian Security Forces during the Bush War (Africa).

 

Fortune cookie say: "An expert is someone that knows so much about so little."

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And so Regimentals is out of the equation per third party purchase. Back to square one.

Watch the youtube.

It clearly shows the so called 75 year old fragile burlap helmet UPSIDE down on the bed.

It was bought cheap and sold cheap.

Biff - bang - BOSH.

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Glad to know that about Regimentals. I specialize in WW1 UK militaria (30 years) and they are one more to cross off the list as fake peddlers. Reminds me of all of the "real" indian War militaria that was going to UK and European buyers in the 1980's. Now those collections are being liquidating and much of it is out and out fake or heavily messed with. Funny a lot of it then went into the Harrisburg PA gateway to the west museum scandal. When it came time to liquidate that mess none of the major historical memorabilia auction houses wanted to touch it. Back to these helmets, like Manny said, does it looks like it was dug out of a veterans barn or shed with the heavy layers of dirt, mold, rat turds, cigarette smoke that it should, and that is just from years of storage. These things have to show their age, let alone the near impossibility of a raider helmet with this type of camo being kept by the serviceman and brought back from a theater of war. Anyone who has trapsed around heavy foliage in training or an operation with a helmet camouflaged like this, will have it torn to pieces especially that twine. And to have paint covering the knots showing that there has not been any flexing to the twine. It doesn't look right. Let alone no provenance, no chain of custody. Surfaced at a show? Though I admit that I have had the good fortune of buying many of my high end items from primary sources, ie the vets themselves or their estate sale, i realize that many great things surface at shows. However the best stuff usually never sees the top of the table.

Sage and sober words.

owen

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Glad to know that about Regimentals. I specialize in WW1 UK militaria (30 years) and they are one more to cross off the list as fake peddlers. Reminds me of all of the "real" indian War militaria that was going to UK and European buyers in the 1980's. Now those collections are being liquidating and much of it is out and out fake or heavily messed with. Funny a lot of it then went into the Harrisburg PA gateway to the west museum scandal. When it came time to liquidate that mess none of the major historical memorabilia auction houses wanted to touch it. Back to these helmets, like Manny said, does it looks like it was dug out of a veterans barn or shed with the heavy layers of dirt, mold, rat turds, cigarette smoke that it should, and that is just from years of storage. These things have to show their age, let alone the near impossibility of a raider helmet with this type of camo being kept by the serviceman and brought back from a theater of war. Anyone who has trapsed around heavy foliage in training or an operation with a helmet camouflaged like this, will have it torn to pieces especially that twine. And to have paint covering the knots showing that there has not been any flexing to the twine. It doesn't look right. Let alone no provenance, no chain of custody. Surfaced at a show? Though I admit that I have had the good fortune of buying many of my high end items from primary sources, ie the vets themselves or their estate sale, i realize that many great things surface at shows. However the best stuff usually never sees the top of the table.

 

Why would it need to be dug out of somewhere ? Im lost as to why you think all helmets used need to be shredded to pieces ?

I have a named BAR usmc gunners helmet with hawley liner, its Unis marked and named to him, the whole 9 yards. Researched and currently sitting in my collection, it came from the vets grandson. The Unis and Tac marking on the back of the Hawley liner where painted when he moved Division. He did that in theatre and fought for 4 months as a BAR gunner wearing that Hawley liner. Day in day out sweating and bleeding in It.

 

The Hawley was dirty inside but intact ! A paper liner went to the Pacific theatre was fought in and it came back in one piece.

 

Once again a paper liner went to the Pacific and came back,

Hessian is stronger than a paper liner so why couldnt it make it back home ?

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

New website

 

https://combatusedmilitaria.com

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I was just over on WAF and typed in Regimental's in the search function.

 

Numerous threads appear about their fakery and the games they play.

 

Also lots of post how they think collector forums are full of idiots and people who need to find someone of the opposite sex.

 

Does this sound like a stand-up operation?

www.vintageproductions.com


"A militaria show is a social event for anti-socials" - A.T. 2008


ASMIC Executive President

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The pictures could be misleading.

 

How soon after each other did these 4 helmets appear?

 

Regimental also had a 29th ID helmet with the same masking tape.

 

Did anyone else find a helmet at the Max with the same masking tape?

 

The tape only IDs the item and has no information other than that.

 

Will Regimentals give up their source?

 

Stay tuned same bat channel same bat place!

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But we are not talking about a bar gunners helmet, we are talking about a RAIDER'S helmet. Worn by a group that participated in some of the most extreme examples of environment and warfare the world has ever seen without the luxury of support or supply that conventional troops enjoy. Everyday service wear on a piece of equipment is quite harsh, coupled with sustained jungle combat for several days or weeks is a meat grinder to men and equipment. Such an experience along with the training the raiders went trough is incomprehensible.

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Seeking Model 1895 and 1902 Named Officer coats as well as Spanish American War Tropical Uniforms.
Also pre WW2 marine uniforms. Always pre-1945 Colorado National Guard Items wanted! Also seeking Rhodesian

Uniforms and Gear used by Americans in the Rhodesian Security Forces during the Bush War (Africa).

 

Fortune cookie say: "An expert is someone that knows so much about so little."

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Share on other sites

The pictures could be misleading.

 

How soon after each other did these 4 helmets appear?

 

Regimental also had a 29th ID helmet with the same masking tape.

 

Did anyone else find a helmet at the Max with the same masking tape?

 

The tape only IDs the item and has no information other than that.

 

Will Regimentals give up their source?

 

Stay tuned same bat channel same bat place!

 

Im sure all will become more clear as and when I get the helmet.

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

New website

 

https://combatusedmilitaria.com

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But we are not talking about a bar gunners helmet, we are talking about a RAIDER'S helmet. Worn by a group that participated in some of the most extreme examples of environment and warfare the world has ever seen without the luxury of support or supply that conventional troops enjoy. Everyday service wear on a piece of equipment is quite harsh, coupled with sustained jungle combat for several days or weeks is a meat grinder to men and equipment. Such an experience along with the training the raiders went trough is incomprehensible.

Raider or not the islands where the same for all.

4 months in a paper liner on a hot island under extreme circumstances on the front lines Would also be extremely harsh.

 

Point being again that materials do survive ! This raider could have been Injured a few days in and the helmet sent back with him.

Your trying to rule it being impossible Im telling you that materials weaker than hessian survived and came back home because I have them in my collection.

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

New website

 

https://combatusedmilitaria.com

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Dean.

My advice to you it this.

Return the helmet and ask for a full refund.

owen

Owen I havent even seen it in hand myself, or even looked closely at It with my own eyes to make that call.

 

If I feel its not right it will be sent back to them, I promise.

 

Thanks again O

 

- Dean

"Rise and rise again until lambs become lions."

 

Always looking for ww2 USMC items, helmets and any camo'd items

 

 

"thinking outside of the box"

 

New website

 

https://combatusedmilitaria.com

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Not sure if this helps much, but I looked at the helmet at the Mack. The seller claimed both the Raider and 29er came from the same old time collector. They both had white paint on the liner with the words "Marine Raider" and "29th Division" written on them. He wanted $2,800.00 for the Raider and $1,700.00 for the 29er which is by no means cheap. The liner in the Raider is a Hood Rubber and the 29er had a worn Hawley. I really didn't scrutinize the helmets much because they were out of my price range. They both seemed like they came from the same place/collection. I'm by no means making a claim either way, just letting you know what I saw. Maybe tying them together will help in the decision process.

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