ID'd Airborne uniform - help! ? "Hin. Inn"??

[grrrldoc]

Hi all,

 

 

I have a nice officer's private purchase Ike jacket, complete with insignia as shown. While the jacket itself is not marked, both the shirt & pants that came with it are marked "Mrs. Goldstein Hin. Inn" His dog tags (two sets, one set covered with cloth tape and the other not), a set of keys, a Jewish prayer vial, a Warrant Officer's cap device and an Asiatic-Pacific theater patch were in the coat pocket, and an Airborne Command patch is on the left shoulder.

 

The tags ID him as Seymour Goldstein, a resident of New York. NARA records show him as residing in Jamaica, New York, born in 1919, and enlisting in 1941.

 

As you can see, he has the bars of Chief Warrant Officer on his straps, and the lapel brass is "U.S" and Warrant Officer insignia. There is a paratroopers glider badge, underneath which are ribbons of: the American Campaign, Asiatic-Pacific Campaign, Good Conduct Medal, American Defense Medal and Victory Medal with one campaign star. I feel very good about this jacket, in that all of the insignia looks like it has been there a long time (when I removed it) and my gut tells me it has not been messed with.

 

Is it reasonable to think that perhaps he was in the 11th Airborne division, since he has the Asiatic-Pacific Campaign insignia?

 

With the glider badge, he may have been in either the 187th or 188th GIR.

 

I am hoping that someone out there knows what "Hin. Inn" means. The laundry markings are identical on the inside of his shirt and pants (I only photographed the pants). It certainly looks like an abbreviation for some Asian locale (hotel? camp?) Maybe if I can figure that out, I can pin him down better. For some reason, it looks Japanese to me. Since it has his wife's name as a laundry marking, perhaps his wife joined him after the war, when the units were occupying Japan? Just a theory, but it seems plausible, no?

 

 

Oh - and yes, i did notice that they misspelled his name on the tags as "Seynour Goldstein"!

 

Any thoughts from the masses?

 

Doc

 

[37thguy]

No Occupation ribbon if he did stay in Japan? Probably good though, who'd fake a Warrant Officer? Lot's of wives did join their husbands after the war. As far as the name inside, notice that are several 4 digit #s inside the trousers. These pants may have been owned by several men. The "Hin.Inn" may not be his?

 

Nice one. Good luck.

[BEAST]

"Hin. Inn" a hotel? There are a few in Thailand with Hin name.

[1stDivVet]

No idea on the "Hin Inn", but.. instead of Mrs. Goldstein, how about Mr. S. Goldstein.. Kinda all run together.. Makes sense as his first name starts with S and in the military, a WO is addressed by the title Mister instead of his WO rank. At least until the addition of the higher ranks when they are then adressed as 'chief'.

 

Fins.

[grrrldoc]

No Occupation ribbon if he did stay in Japan? Probably good though, who'd fake a Warrant Officer? Lot's of wives did join their husbands after the war. As far as the name inside, notice that are several 4 digit #s inside the trousers. These pants may have been owned by several men. The "Hin.Inn" may not be his?

 

Nice one. Good luck.

 

 

I think that the Hin. Inn goes with Goldstein's name since it is in both the shirt and pants.

 

What did a Warrant Officer do in the Airborne, anyway? Was it a paper-pusher type of job?

[pathfinder505]

This uniform could also be 503rd. I have one and it has the airborne command patch on it. I have seen a lot of pics of other 503rd vets wearing the patch too.

[grrrldoc]

This uniform could also be 503rd. I have one and it has the airborne command patch on it. I have seen a lot of pics of other 503rd vets wearing the patch too.

 

 

Thanks for the information! But- would it still have a glider badge on it, though?

 

Also, I just read about the 503rd and it looks like they were in five major combat operations. Goldstein's ribbon shows one combat star, and he was in from 1941.

[pathfinder505]

Thanks for the information! But- would it still have a glider badge on it, though?

 

Also, I just read about the 503rd and it looks like they were in five major combat operations. Goldstein's ribbon shows one combat star, and he was in from 1941.

 

I am not sure if a 503rd would have glider qualified. However, he could have been in since 41 and just have one campaign star. It would be nice to have a copy of the discharge. you might want to write NARA for more info. It would probably answer all the unknowns "if" they found anything.

[Johndanger]

What did a Warrant Officer do in the Airborne, anyway? Was it a paper-pusher type of job?

 

 

WOs were used in clerical, administrative, and band leader positions WOs were very specialized and used in a non leadership role ( I guess the band leaders did use some leadership ) most were used in a trade that they did pre war.

 

glider qualification might point to admin of a field unit.

[VolunteerArmoury]

No Occupation ribbon if he did stay in Japan? Probably good though, who'd fake a Warrant Officer? Lot's of wives did join their husbands after the war. As far as the name inside, notice that are several 4 digit #s inside the trousers. These pants may have been owned by several men. The "Hin.Inn" may not be his?

 

Nice one. Good luck.

 

Why wouldn't someone fake a Warrant Officer's uniform (though I don't like faked uniforms of any sorts) but Warrants are some of the most professional out there. Remember the non-avaitor Warrants came from the enlisted ranks while avaition Warrants are often more fast tracked to a Warrant but still are enlisted for a period during initial entry training.

 

FYI CW2 and above currently hold commissions bestowed by the Commander in Chief with the intention that they can hold some commands/leadership positions. The only examples I can think of are Target Aquisition Battery Platoons & the Caisoon Platoon of the Old Guard (which is that slot branch immaterial since we have no Infantry Warrants?). It is not that common that I know of nor that rare that Chief Warrants are given direct commissions.

[Wailuna]

Have you noticed that the Goldstein dog tag pictured shows his enlisted serial number: 32013671 (which is consistent with his enlistment record at NARA data base)? Warrant officers appointed during WWII were assigned serial numbers beginning with a "W" prefix, followed by seven digits beginning with "21": W-21#####. There is nothing wrong with Mr. Goldstein's enlisted dog tags being among his belongings, nor is there anything wrong with his warrant officer dog tags not being among his belongings (if, indeed, warrant officer dog tags were ever issued to him). But do you have any evidence that Mr. Goldstein actually was a warrant officer, other than the uniform shown?

[Costa]

want to know for sure? send off for his records.

[Mr-X]

want to know for sure? send off for his records.

 

Exactly.

[grrrldoc]

Well, after a few years, I finally got around to ordering the records, and this is all I received. I'm confused by it, can anyone help decipher what happened? Looks like he became a warrant officer, but the rest of the story seems to be missing...

 

 

[Allan H.]

THe document that you posted is tough to read, even when enlarged to nearly three times the original size. What you have here is a final pay voucher for Goldstein when he was discharged in 1943 in order to accept a position as a warrant officer in 1943. Hewas a Technician 5th grade when he was discharged. His unit upon discharge appears to have been a technical school- probably preparing him to become a warrant officer. There isn't much more relevant information to your man on the voucher.

 

I think that this might have been all of the paperwork available for a soldier who enlisted in 1941 and who didn't deploy overseas before his discharge. You probably sent for the records based on his enlist man's serial number. You might have better luck if you have his WO service number searched. It will start with a "T."

 

I would assume that he became glider qualified after making warrant officer. It makes sense that this training probably occurred in the PTO. IF he was assigned to the 11th Airborne, the commander, MG Joe Swing had put out an order that all soldiers in his command be trained as both parachute and glider troops. He did this to ensure that depending on the availablity of aircraft, he could deploy as much of the division as possible. I doubt that your man was in the 503rd RCT as these troops were almost excusively parachute qualified. Of course, there were other units that used gliders, most famously, the 1st Air Commandos (and no, I don't think your guy was an air commando), so he could have gotten glider training in theater and have never been assigned to the usual suspects.

 

One final point here- the only overseas use of the Airborne Command SSI that I know of in WWII was the use of the patch by the OSS agents who went to China to work with the Chinese para-commandos. These fellows were all parachute qualified, so I would assume that Goldstein wore the Airborne Command SSI while assigned to a unit at FT Benning.

 

You can see here that photobucket and other photo hosting sites stink because this post no longer has the photos that you posted many years ago. Maybe you could do us all a favor and post some photos to the thread. With more members now than in 2009, you might have someone with more knowledge of Goldstein's service history.

 

Allan

[grrrldoc]

Hi Allen

 

Thanks for the information! I tried to increase the contrast in the photo, but the original document was poorly readable as you can see.

 

How can I add photos from my computer instead of photobucket?

 

Melanie

[mndoss]

To post more pictures you'll have to upload them to the post itself. To do that when you go to post click on "More Post Options" at the bottom. You should see "Attach Files" at the bottom of the post. Click "Browse..." select the file you want to attach, then click "Attach This File." It should only take a second to attach and then click "Add Reply." You'll need to put some text in the reply, most people usually just put "..." if you don't have anything specific. Please note you'll have to resize the photos if they're too large, each post can only have a max of 251k of files.

 

A few years ago the forum restricted the use of photo hosting sites like Photobucket. I hope this helps!

[Allan H.]

A quick correction to my last post- a "T" prefix on a serial number is for a FLIGHT OFFICER. A WARRANT OFFICER's serial number would have a "W" prefix. Apologies for any confusion that I might have caused.

 

Allan

[july4girl]

THe document that you posted is tough to read, even when enlarged to nearly three times the original size. What you have here is a final pay voucher for Goldstein when he was discharged in 1943 in order to accept a position as a warrant officer in 1943. Hewas a Technician 5th grade when he was discharged. His unit upon discharge appears to have been a technical school- probably preparing him to become a warrant officer. There isn't much more relevant information to your man on the voucher.

 

I think that this might have been all of the paperwork available for a soldier who enlisted in 1941 and who didn't deploy overseas before his discharge. You probably sent for the records based on his enlist man's serial number. You might have better luck if you have his WO service number searched. It will start with a "T."

 

I would assume that he became glider qualified after making warrant officer. It makes sense that this training probably occurred in the PTO. IF he was assigned to the 11th Airborne, the commander, MG Joe Swing had put out an order that all soldiers in his command be trained as both parachute and glider troops. He did this to ensure that depending on the availablity of aircraft, he could deploy as much of the division as possible. I doubt that your man was in the 503rd RCT as these troops were almost excusively parachute qualified. Of course, there were other units that used gliders, most famously, the 1st Air Commandos (and no, I don't think your guy was an air commando), so he could have gotten glider training in theater and have never been assigned to the usual suspects.

 

One final point here- the only overseas use of the Airborne Command SSI that I know of in WWII was the use of the patch by the OSS agents who went to China to work with the Chinese para-commandos. These fellows were all parachute qualified, so I would assume that Goldstein wore the Airborne Command SSI while assigned to a unit at FT Benning.

 

You can see here that photobucket and other photo hosting sites stink because this post no longer has the photos that you posted many years ago. Maybe you could do us all a favor and post some photos to the thread. With more members now than in 2009, you might have someone with more knowledge of Goldstein's service history.

 

Allan

 

Hi Allan,

 

I just happened to stumble across this thread and it certainly brought up some memories! I was curious about your statement that Swing had ALL the men in his command get BOTH jump and glider qualified. My late father was in the 11th ABN and he was the senior NCO for Payroll in the 11th ABN's Div HQ. He was Finance Corps after training at Ft Benjamin Harrison and had a BS in Accounting. He wanted to get into OCS being college educated but as he used to say once they put in the ABN the only way out is to die! As the timing in the war was bad after he was drafted he stayed enlisted. I have never seen or heard that Swing's men had to do both types of training -- my Dad definitely never jumped out of an airplane but he told me how he did some actual glider rides with Swing himself when they were in New Guinea!

[Allan H.]

Hi Jean and welcome to the forum. I apologize for not replying sooner as I didn't realize that you had asked me a question. I'll try to give you a good answer. General Swing was constantly being hamstrung by aircraft availablity when command elements were planning various operations that could include the 11th Airborne Division. Sometimes their weren't enough gliders available to move his Glider Infantry Regiments (GIR) or his Glider Field Artillery (GFA) Battalions. Sometimes there weren't enough transport aircraft to get the Parachute Infantry Regiments (PIR) and Parachute Field Artillery Battalions (PFA) into the fight. Out of frustration, Swing decided that in order to give his division the greatest opportunity to get into the fight, he would get as many of his men trained to go into combat via parachute and via glider. Throughout the war, Swing was constantly pushing his commanders to get their soldiers trained in both manners of transort. Swing's desire to have the troops trained in both manner of transport carried over to the occupation period as both glider and parachute schools were set up at Sendai on the Japanese island of Hokaido.

 

Jean, I would assume that as your father was a finance NCO in the division HQ and not in one of the combat units, that General Swing didn't feel the need to have these men trained to jump out of airplanes since the Division HQ wouldn't be in the vanguard of the assault. Additionally, as soldiers get older, their bodies are less capable to taking the jolts and torture that a parachute jump would entail.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

Allan