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Is it just me or is this paint to new for the helmet?


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And right now somebody is looking up the name of a deceased Navy vet, the LCI he served on, and heading to the model store for some Testors black and green gloss paint.

 

I'm not sure if this helmet has great provenance? Provenance, to me, is when a helmet (or whatever is in question) is 100% traceable to the vet...as in, you saw the vet take it out of the footlocker. Or the vet (or his family) walked into the militaria show or hotel buy with the helmet. You've got the guy's name, address, unit, maybe a written testimony. This helmet has none of that. It has a name on it. Lots of things have names and service #'s on them, but no provenance. Came out of an old collection from No. Carolina is the story. The vet was from No. Carolina. That's reassuring, but not sure if it's solid provenance.

 

Agreed, a name in a liner is not $5100 worth of provenance to me.

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The hater community on this thread is toxic.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

To what does this refer? Seems like most people on this thread like this helmet, no? I, too, think it's probably legit.

 

Who are "the haters" of which you speak?

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Throw it under a black light and see if the fluorescents light up

If someone did this good of a job to fake it, do you really think they'd be so dumb as to not use a lead based paint? This thing is legitimate, not worth the kind of money it went for but, good nonetheless.

"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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Owen, I don't see it. The statement made was, "This helmet has great provenance. Provenance is something that has proof to back it up."

I disagreed. I don't think the helmet is bad in any way, but a stamped name (actually 2 initials and a last name) in a liner in a helmet that came from "a large collection" is not rock solid provenance. Has this liner ALWAYS been in this shell? Has that sweatband ALWAYS been in that liner? When was it acquired? Where was it acquired? Did it come from the family? I don't see this as solid provenance (defined as a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality), and not worth $5100 to me.

 

If you disagree, lay out your argument.

 

I'm a 22-year retired LEO. Whenever I see someone make a claim, I immediately start thinking of the questions a defense attorney would ask in court to disprove my claim. I think going to court and saying, "This helmet belonged to Earl Mcdonald Chadwick 75 years ago because it says "EM Chadwick in it" would not fly. Too many questions can be raised and too much time has passed without any record of where this helmet came from.

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my I suggest--- the guy who snagged this lid get the vets record from GOLDEN ARROW. navy/marine records are pretty much intact not destroyed in the 73 fire. match up the name to the record for the story.

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If the name on the helmet is legit then it’s identified.

 

That’s provenance.

 

If you get it from the family or vet that’s better provenance.

 

Named is not provenance, a 7-page thread that concerns names in hats and caps comes to mind.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/182566-fake-uniforms-and-hats-to-patton-eaker-pyle-stewart-and-more/page-3?hl=%2Bhats+%2Bfamous+%2Bnames&do=findComment&comment=1893047

 

I disagree for the reasons I stated earlier, but I'm not the new owner so my opinion means little.

 

Provenance:

the place of origin or earliest known history of something.

a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality.

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If someone here won the helmet I am very excited for you and looking forward to see more of the helmet. As for the price, it’s to high for me but for the new caretaker that’s his or her business and glad you won it.

 

 

Marty

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Not that it really matters at this point, what do you guys think a helmet like this is worth? I see people suggesting that the price was high but how high? I've got no idea what the market is like for camo M1s.

 

Initial guesstimates were $2-3k.

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Initial guesstimates were $2-3k.

Don't forget to add the sales tax that ebay now collects. For me in upstate NY, that would have added another $408.00 to the price.

Sure does take the fun out of collecting.

Ken


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I agree with Matt------------ 2000---3000 but, the tax here in jersey would kill me. I passed due to high price and tax.

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Don't forget to add the sales tax that ebay now collects. For me in upstate NY, that would have added another $408.00 to the price.

Sure does take the fun out of collecting.

Ken

 

I believe eBay and PayPal fees take another 10% off the top.

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To me..... Thats a lot of money!!! And congrats to who ever got it! Wow!

I learned in the wing game... That the wings are worth what someone is willing to pay.

I think it was Mitch who told me that.

I mean it in all seriousness when I say.... I wonder what Mr Chadwick would say if he knew his $1.98 Govt issue helmet

sold for what would have bought a real nice house back in the 1940's?

Man !!!! Out of my league. Im a humble observer amoungst the heavy hitters. Wow!!!

Yea Wow!!!

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If the name on the helmet is genuine period painted and not faked that is provenance.

 

If it isn’t provenance than what do you call it?

 

If it is real and period applied (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), I'd call it a "named" or "identified" helmet.

I believe those are accepted terms in the collecting community. I personally don't know where that helmet came from or where it has been in the last 75 years or who has handled it, so I would not say it has provenance. That's just my interpretation of the definition of provenance that I posted earlier.

 

In police work, there is a "chain of custody" for evidence. Officer A collected the evidence at this place at this date and time, it was handed to Detective B on this date and time, it was delivered to the lab to this technician on this date and time. That is provenance. A helmet from 1944 that appears on eBay in 2019 without that sort of timeline does not have provenance in my eyes. Others may agree or disagree.

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Fake names are not provenance I agree with you there.

 

And I don't think the name in this helmet is fake, but I can't prove 100% that it's not.

 

Sorry, I'm a retired cop and view everything as if the burden of proof is on me to prove my claim in court. :lol:

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Ive got a book called clipped wings. about and published by the POWS in Germany. Inside the cover it has an old 80's 90's home computer printed address label. The name on it is Col James Vaughter. Its his address too.

He was a prisoner in the camp. I have no idea if it was his but a mailing label with his address and name is stuck inside the cover.

Was it Col Vaughters? I cant honestly say. But it looks like it is. It came from a collector who bought it from the Pritzker Military Library in Chicago.

The library bought it from a collector. To me ... Its questionable provenance. If I got it from the colonel or his family and had a notorized letter about it.

Then it would be solid.

I dont think the helmets fake either.

Any how.... Crazy expensive helmet ! Wild. !!!

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Owen, I don't see it. The statement made was, "This helmet has great provenance. Provenance is something that has proof to back it up."

I disagreed. I don't think the helmet is bad in any way, but a stamped name (actually 2 initials and a last name) in a liner in a helmet that came from "a large collection" is not rock solid provenance. Has this liner ALWAYS been in this shell? Has that sweatband ALWAYS been in that liner? When was it acquired? Where was it acquired? Did it come from the family? I don't see this as solid provenance (defined as a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality), and not worth $5100 to me.

 

If you disagree, lay out your argument.

 

I'm a 22-year retired LEO. Whenever I see someone make a claim, I immediately start thinking of the questions a defense attorney would ask in court to disprove my claim. I think going to court and saying, "This helmet belonged to Earl Mcdonald Chadwick 75 years ago because it says "EM Chadwick in it" would not fly. Too many questions can be raised and too much time has passed without any record of where this helmet came from. 

 

I am a libra.

I hope this helps you better understand.

Owen

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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