mortaydc60 Posted September 26, 2019 Share #1 Posted September 26, 2019 Curious as to thoughts of forum on this patch. Looks to be Paki from back but the bullion work on front in better than usual. Item #163869465220. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake1941 Posted September 26, 2019 Share #2 Posted September 26, 2019 About 25 percent of the stuff this guy has or more is repro. The one posted above is garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor996 Posted September 26, 2019 Share #3 Posted September 26, 2019 Link to patch https://www.ebay.com/itm/POST-WWII-84th-INFANTRY-DIVISION-RAILSPLITTERS-BULLION-PATCH-OCCUPATION-ERA/163869465220?hash=item2627619a84:g:16AAAOSwRuldgqhX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyDevil117 Posted September 26, 2019 Share #4 Posted September 26, 2019 That link above took me to another patch the seller has for sale. heres an exact link to the patch. https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-KOREAN-WAR-180th-INFANTRY-REGIMENT-45th-INFANTRY-DIVISION-BULLION-PATCH/163869353105?hash=item26275fe491:g:jzUAAOSw3C1dgp3~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John4022 Posted September 26, 2019 Share #5 Posted September 26, 2019 I like the 84th Infantry Patch that Thor996 linked, but I agree that the 45th is a no go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake1941 Posted September 26, 2019 Share #6 Posted September 26, 2019 The 84th is legit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted September 26, 2019 Author Share #7 Posted September 26, 2019 Yes I like the 84th also. Just wanted to point out to forum that the Paki's have improved their technique on bullion making more intricate designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake1941 Posted September 26, 2019 Share #8 Posted September 26, 2019 I dont think the quality is that good on this one at all, look at the felt. Its way off, not a fan of the backing. Ive seen much better fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted September 26, 2019 Author Share #9 Posted September 26, 2019 The backing is the big tell. Think that someone new to hobby could fall for this easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor996 Posted September 26, 2019 Share #10 Posted September 26, 2019 Link to patch https://www.ebay.com/itm/POST-WWII-84th-INFANTRY-DIVISION-RAILSPLITTERS-BULLION-PATCH-OCCUPATION-ERA/163869465220?hash=item2627619a84:g:16AAAOSwRuldgqhX thanks for the correction. dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor996 Posted September 26, 2019 Share #11 Posted September 26, 2019 The 84th is legit I linked the wrong patch. Was ebayin and on the forum and watching a ball game all at the same time. /thanks dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted September 27, 2019 Share #12 Posted September 27, 2019 This piece came out of a collection of insignia that was being shopped around in July out of Indiana. Most everything in that collection wasn't right. There were a few pieces that looked ok. Only photos of the front of the patches were available. This piece was visible as was an 88th Inf. Div. Blue Devils made in a similar manner. I discussed this piece with several extremely advanced insignia collectors at the time. The felt/wool was not and should not be of concern. The bullion work is impeccable. The back, now visible, may yield a different conclusion, but this is a very good example to study. The bullion work is so spot on I'd hazard theres a real on floating around somewhere that should not be discounted. Best ABN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share #13 Posted September 27, 2019 Now you see why I posted this patch. Big question or doubt here as to it being good from very knowledgeable folks. So does the back of patch make this a big no or does the excellent bullion work on front make it worth the risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL THE PATCH Posted September 27, 2019 Share #14 Posted September 27, 2019 Looks like a typical Pakistan black back, and besides it looks to good to be a 75 year old patch. To crisp and clean to me anyway. I thought repo at first glance Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Scott Posted September 27, 2019 Share #15 Posted September 27, 2019 As stated it is a Paki repro and the back is a dead give away.The patch on the front is stunning and looks real and there probably is a real one out there but the back would never look like that.In 40 years I have never seen an Italian or Japanese Korean War 45th with that type of backing.I also think that there is no such thing as a patch looking to new.I have owned patch 75 to 100 years old that show no sign of age at all.It all depends on how they were stored and the environment they were in, case in point the 509th is 75 years old the 332nd is 100 years old both Italian made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share #16 Posted September 27, 2019 Glad to see that two old timers are of like mind on this patch. To repeat the result it is a Paki repro mainly seen by back construction even though the front has good looking bullion work. Started this post in effort to educate forum on this type of repro from Pakistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted September 27, 2019 Share #17 Posted September 27, 2019 Now you see why I posted this patch. Big question or doubt here as to it being good from very knowledgeable folks. So does the back of patch make this a big no or does the excellent bullion work on front make it worth the risk? I think it was Dave K. that told me once to think about the construction of the patch. Floppy vs stiff. I think in hand this piece would be excessively stiff, too stiff for shoulder wear. I'm thinking blazer type patch. There are real black paper back patches. They are rather few and usually of German origin. I have seen a few Japanese with black paper backs. Most 45th theater pieces are Italian made. The two tone alternating bullion on the square of the patch is something I have seen before on 45th ID Italian pieces, the bird is done in a manner identically seen on these same pieces. I have never seen black paper on the back of an Italian made piece. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but the back of this one doesn't give me warm and fuzzies. I truly want this piece to be real. It'd be a dynamite piece, but I'm struggling to convince myself. Best ABN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted September 28, 2019 Author Share #18 Posted September 28, 2019 Let it go. Not worth chance when so many have doubts,will have hard time reselling in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake1941 Posted September 28, 2019 Share #19 Posted September 28, 2019 I would never want this in my collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL THE PATCH Posted September 28, 2019 Share #20 Posted September 28, 2019 As stated it is a Paki repro and the back is a dead give away.The patch on the front is stunning and looks real and there probably is a real one out there but the back would never look like that.In 40 years I have never seen an Italian or Japanese Korean War 45th with that type of backing.I also think that there is no such thing as a patch looking to new.I have owned patch 75 to 100 years old that show no sign of age at all.It all depends on how they were stored and the environment they were in, case in point the 509th is 75 years old the 332nd is 100 years old both Italian made.I see your point, but when I look at the front it screams repo, maybe saying it looked to new was wrong. Maybe to stiff is what I was trying to say?, We're there 45th div patches with intergrel tabs? I've never saw one Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Scott Posted September 29, 2019 Share #21 Posted September 29, 2019 Guys and Girls it's a reproduction not a real anything guaranteed.And year the Italians made many 45th with integral tabs.Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mslurvey Posted September 29, 2019 Share #22 Posted September 29, 2019 Well everybody I am the one who was the high bidder on the 45th reproduction patch. And, yes I new full well what I was getting into! Even before I bid I had relayed my concerns to a fellow member: Two stiff, Paki back, but then the bullion work looked very well done. He alerted me to the conversation on the forum with I followed with great interest, My reason to go all in was the quality of the reproduction so that I can study it in detail and have one on hand to compare with other questionable patches that may come along. I will make sure I mark the back as a reproduction and I will take it to shows so that other collectors can test feel the patch for there own education. Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted November 3, 2019 Share #23 Posted November 3, 2019 Well, myself and Ron Burkey got to look at this 45th division patch in person, yesterday at the Mesa military show. Congrats Mason for using your gut instinct and not listening to the opinions here. That is a killer patch and is no way in hell, Pakistani made. It is vintage German made. In person the details are amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn92 Posted November 3, 2019 Share #24 Posted November 3, 2019 Very interesting to see the split among the experienced collectors. Maybe having it in hand makes the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share #25 Posted November 3, 2019 Bottom line you are much better off seeing the patch in person and handling vs going by photos so do not be so hard on opinions of thise who did not actually handle the patch. It was only until someone had it in hand did they make the call that it was German not Paki and reason I posted it in the first place. Congrat to Mason chaulk up one for the good guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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