USS Hist And New Orleans Sampson Medals Opinions Please

[Wade16]

I won these medals on Ebay, and would like opinions on them please. Both are not rim named.

[Wade16]

USS New Orleans Medal

[Wade16]

Could someone please give me an opinion as to weather these medals are genuine or restrikes. I think they might be put together medals from old stock, but I am no expert.

[aerialbridge]

As euphemistically as one could say it, what that guy was selling would be "restrikes" rather than "genuine". The USS New Orleans bar is not even close to the correct font style.

[Dave]

I'm curious about these as well as I was watching the impressive number of older medals that he was selling, most of which seemed to not get a lot of bids. My hunch was that there was something wrong with them...but I'm not an expert on these so I opted to stay away.

[KurtA]

I think most (if not all) of the metal components are original old strikes. But, based on my review of Al Gleims's Sampson Medal Book, the medals, as assembled, are not correct. The Hist should have 3 bars (3 different Manzanillo dates), The New Orleans engagement date on the reverse of the planchet should be May 31st, not July 3rd. And, the New Orleans should have 3 Santiago bars - different dates)

I like both ship bars - they are the type used for Phase Ii and III (flat catch, as opposed the Phase 1 wrought pin catch)

According to the book, many old components (planchets and bars) were sold for scrap way back when. I think these two medals were haphazardly put together (based on them not being correct) from the surplus loose components by a collector .

[Wade16]

Thank you for your great information. I thought they may have been put together.

[bobgee]

Way back in the day, 1950's or 60's, a hoarde of unfinished Sampson planchets, ship bars etc were sold by the government as scrap. They were acquired by a now un-remembered 'dealer' on the East coast, were assembled & sold to collectors. I suspect these may include parts of that lot. From my addled brain. My 2-cents. Bob

[Wade16]

Would the medals still have any value?

[aerialbridge]

The "New Orleans" brooch of this piece compared to a bona fide named Phase 2 Sampson brooch. The respective pin pivot assemblies are interesting. It seems safe to say that component is not a genuine, surplus part and was specifically made for the collector market.

[KurtA]

Would the medals still have any value?

 

if they had their proper ship bar ribbon assemblies with all 3 engagement bars, what you paid would have been a very good price.

 

If I had a named Hist or New Orleans Sampson planchet that was missing the ship/engagement bar assemblies, I would happily pay $500 each for an original complete un-named examples to add those missing parts and complete my medals. But, I would not pay anywhere near that just to obtain the ship bars, as finding the still missing engagement bars would be impossible. The only realistic way to find them is on a complete un-named medal.

 

The two posted medals certainly have some value, but most collectors wouldn't want them even as a filler, as they don't "display correctly" (i.e., they are missing engagement bars). So, value is somewhat low.

 

I see the seller sold 3 named Type I USS Harvard Sampsons for $150 each. The one I looked at appeared to be a perfect original. That was a great price for those.

[KurtA]

The below book (currently listed on Ebay) is an absolute MUST for anyone who plans to spend money on a Sampson Medal. Lots of questionable Sampsons out there, but with this book, you will be pretty much be able to tell if you're buying a good one or not.

What to look for:

1. Does the planchet reverse engagement/date match what was authorized for that ship?

2. Does the medal have the proper engagement bars?

3. Is the ribbon sewing correct? (the book shows exactly what original sewing should look like)

4. Proper ship bar reverse catch?

5. Is the recipient name on the planchet listed on the roll for that ship?

6. Style of naming correct? (even with the book, this can be challenging for Phase II or III hand engraving)

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-SAMPSON-MEDAL-THE-SHIPS-AND-THE-MEN-BOOKLET/193070790289?hash=item2cf3ea7691:g:N10AAOSw1wZdZUhW

[Wade16]

I appreciate all the information. I believe I will return the medals.