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42nd Infantry Division helmet belonging to Richard J. Tallman


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M24 Chaffee

That’s a great helmet with unique features and provenance to go with it! Great piece!

 

Frank

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Update:

 

Peg6 wrote me yesterday, saying that he has to Re-ID the helmet.

He searched with a colleague the archive and found a newspaper clipping mentioning Troutman coming home in 1945 from Europe.

It seems like he was a Tec-5 serving in an AA-Unit from France-VE until the end of the war.

 

So even after all the evidences under the circumstances firstly were plausible I have to say that the above mentioned soldier wont be the one who wore my helmet.

 

I see how difficult it is to find the one with just a laundry number but Peg6 is going to research again.

I'm optimistic that he will achieve something!

 

Blueprint

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One correction.....full officer ASNs did begin with an O as stated, but often officers used the same format as enlisted men for their laundry number. First initial of last name and last four.

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I wonder what the chances are that this helmet was originally owned and lost by a private, then picked up by a 2nd LT. who was then promoted to 1st LT.

 

If that's the case it would probably make tracking down the owner a bit tricky.

 

Either way it's still a killer lid!

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I wonder what the chances are that this helmet was originally owned and lost by a private, then picked up by a 2nd LT. who was then promoted to 1st LT.

 

If that's the case it would probably make tracking down the owner a bit tricky.

 

Either way it's still a killer lid!

It is difficult to know for sure. This could indeed be an enlisted helmet that was repurposed by an officer...or that could be an officer laundry number (which is almost impossible to track down unless you have some additional data point).

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One correction.....full officer ASNs did begin with an O as stated, but often officers used the same format as enlisted men for their laundry number. First initial of last name and last four.

 

Interesting to know!

I still think, that it propably belonged to an private who then was Battlefield commissioned or like you said a officer just used the same method for his laundry number.

In either cases researching is going to be a tough one but let's see if Peg6 can gain more informations!

 

I wonder what the chances are that this helmet was originally owned and lost by a private, then picked up by a 2nd LT. who was then promoted to 1st LT.

 

If that's the case it would probably make tracking down the owner a bit tricky.

 

Either way it's still a killer lid!

 

Agree with you.

But I still hope to gain some information on who the owner was! I would be pleased to know in which battle the soldier took place. Currently I'm thinking that he was either in the later stages of the Phillipine Campaign or on Okinawa.

 

Blueprint

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One correction.....full officer ASNs did begin with an O as stated, but often officers used the same format as enlisted men for their laundry number. First initial of last name and last four.

Kadet is correct with the officer's using "O" prefix as well as the First Initial method. However, There are instances where some officers (especially in some Divisions or Regiments) would use the combination of "X-last 4" or "XO- last 4".

 

TH1

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Kadet is correct with the officer's using "O" prefix as well as the First Initial method. However, There are instances where some officers (especially in some Divisions or Regiments) would use the combination of "X-last 4" or "XO- last 4".

 

TH1

Interesting! If you take a closer look at the laundry number in post #3 there seems to be a dot inbetween the T and 7 (T7399).

Maybe a indication for an O or just a normal dot?

Wonder myself that the dot is only visible on the laundry number in the liner.

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I recently acquired a book about the Battle of Okinawa and just as I opened the book I saw a decent picture of an M1 with a japanese net (similar to mine) being used by a flamethrower soldier of the 32nd Infantry, 7th Inf. Div..

 

I just wanted to share this picture with you as kind of a prove. It's already the third picture which I found were GI's had japanese nets on their M1's in the Battle of Okinawa.

 

Blueprint

post-180902-0-23125900-1564841024_thumb.jpg

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I would say this helmet and netting belonged to the man your research found. There are many pictures of US Army soldiers in the ETO with similar US made ( not Japanese) netting.

Probably the best known example is the 79th Division in Normandy. Here are pictures of men there wearing similar netting.

 

Here is a link to the video:

 

post-8296-0-34075400-1564893207.jpg

post-8296-0-91535100-1564893220.jpg

post-8296-0-15270700-1564893253.jpg

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Here are pictures of men of the 442nd Infantry Regiment with this "spider mesh" (not cargo) netting while in training in Camp Shelby, Mississippi.

post-8296-0-83231800-1564893546.jpg

post-8296-0-02192500-1564893564.jpg

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I would say this helmet and netting belonged to the man your research found. There are many pictures of US Army soldiers in the ETO with similar US made ( not Japanese) netting.

 

Probably the best known example is the 79th Division in Normandy. Here are pictures of men there wearing similar netting.

 

Here is a link to the video:

 

To clarify my opinion, although awesome netting, I don't think it is Japanese netting and there is a good chance the Lieutenant who put his rank on the helmet probably served in the ETO as well assuming that the other partial serial # belonged to a man who served in the ETO.

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Hey!

Thanks for the great input VenitHora.

 

As I was buying the helmet I discussed it with the seller. I mentioned that it couldve been a net from the above mentioned divisions.

He assured me that its Japanese and send some additional pictures of Japanese nets.

 

The thing why I doubt that its a US net is that it doesnt fit under the rim inbetween the liner.

I looked at all the pictures and in the book of the 42nd ID and all of their nets fit perfectly under the helmet. Like they were made for the use on M1s whereas my net cant reach the underside of the rim even on full length.

 

The ring on top of the helmet is always wider on the above seen pictures and still the net fits.

My ring seems to be closed, meaning that the net is on maximum length.

 

The thing with Japanese nets is that there were so many different kinds of nets that there cant be a 100% standard example to refer to.

 

Blueprint

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The net on the third picture and the nets seen on the 442nd ID are the closest ones to the net I own.

 

But still wondering about he length. There are no cuts on my net which couldve shortened the net so that it had to be fixed.

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Hello Blueprint,

I am a big fan of this helmet but I am still on the side of it not being Japanese but an American version. There are other instances of US helmets having hooks like yours to keep the net on rather than being stretched over the rim of the helmet.

Like I said before, awesome netting but I would prefer more definitive proof about it being captured Japanese netting

Here are some examples of netting with similar attaching hooks on M1 helmets from the ETO that survive in private collections.

post-8296-0-80440600-1564904455_thumb.jpg

post-8296-0-75924100-1564904510.jpg

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Also,

I believe these large nets were handmade. As you can see in the above wartime photos the hole size varies a lot even for men in the same unit.

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Seeing those pictures let me think about it again!

 

Peg6 and I are still on the hunt but all the names we checked are either PTO/ETO but nobody ever achieved the rank of 1st Lt.

 

Troutman was in the ETO and served in an artillery unit.

 

Without a clear evidence it will never be known. Just speculations.

But your circumstances clearly lean more forward to a ETO use.

 

To me, I would be pleased if its a PTO Helmet/Net.

 

 

Blueprint

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Thanks man, I appreciate it and your input!

 

Its good to discuss things when they arent clear.

 

Blueprint

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Checked the Roster of the 442nd Regiment.

The only match from my enlistment list states the soldier there as a rank of Sgt.

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