Study: USN WWII Gray Uniforms 1943-1949

[sigsaye]

The insignia you describe were "bronze" colored, not darkened, or black, as intended for the gray uniform. They are not interchangeable.

. I could be mistaken, but I think I recall that the insignia for the grays was some sort of plastic or Bakelite. I could be wrong.

[Justin B.]

The insignia you describe were "bronze" colored, not darkened, or black, as intended for the gray uniform. They are not interchangeable.

 

Also the bronze cap badges were the miniature (garrison cap) size only, to fit the mounting points on the USMC visor cap.

[David Minton]

. I could be mistaken, but I think I recall that the insignia for the grays was some sort of plastic or Bakelite. I could be wrong.

That would be interesting, but have never come across one. The only plastic USN officer cap badge I own is plated to look like metal. Only on close inspection is it obviously plastic.

[sjw83071]

There appears to be four men wearing the gray overseas cap in this photo. The source I got it from said that this formation was aboard the USS Hansford for the purpose of a burial at sea for a casualty from the battle of Iwo Jima. Or are they very dark khaki? I also think I see some gray combination caps and trousers.

[Justin B.]

Definitely grays. The closer you get to the end of the war, the more gray you see in the Pacific. It's often overlooked in black and white photos.

One officer, two places behind the bugler roughly, is wearing a black chinstrap. That photo is available in high-res here:

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nara-series/80-g-k/80-G-K-03000/80-G-K-3170.html

And another one from the same occasion:

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/80-G-K-03000/80-G-K-3167.html

[sjw83071]

 

Definitely grays. The closer you get to the end of the war, the more gray you see in the Pacific. It's often overlooked in black and white photos.

One officer, two places behind the bugler roughly, is wearing a black chinstrap. That photo is available in high-res here:

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nara-series/80-g-k/80-G-K-03000/80-G-K-3170.html

And another one from the same occasion:

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/80-G-K-03000/80-G-K-3167.html

 

Thanks for the reply and the links!

[29navy]

I count at least 9 wearing grays in the photo, inlcuding the Chief in front of the firing squad.

 

In the later classes of midshipmen, in their class books, they are all wearing grays.

[David Minton]

There appears to be four men wearing the gray overseas cap in this photo. The source I got it from said that this formation was aboard the USS Hansford for the purpose of a burial at sea for a casualty from the battle of Iwo Jima. Or are they very dark khaki? I also think I see some gray combination caps and trousers.IMG_1677 - Copy (2).JPG

In a working uniform (gray or khaki) if the shirt and pants look different, then I think almost definitely gray. The khaki shirts and pants never seem to have that much contrast.

[Justin B.]

Abandon ship drill on Missouri, 1944. Besides one officer in grays, some sailors in N-3 HBT ball caps and some in red-dyed hats.

 

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/us-navy-ships/battleships/missouri-bb-63/80-G-K-4528.html

 

[Justin B.]

Commander in grays on the left as officers negotiate surrender in the Marshalls, 22 August 1945.

 

[Justin B.]

Two vice admirals in khaki, one in gray, late 1944 or 1945. It looks like VAdm Willson is wearing army-style 5/8-inch stars on the collar.

 

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/80-G-327000/80-G-327677.html

[huntssurplus]

I think those are just 3 stars for the Vice Admiral rank.

Hunt


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[Justin B.]

10 hours ago, huntssurplus said:

I think those are just 3 stars for the Vice Admiral rank.

 

Yeah, but the one set is noticeably bigger than the other two. Admiral stars were supposed to fit a 3/8" circle,  army stars were 1" for the shoulder and 5/8" for the collar.

[huntssurplus]

 
Yeah, but the one set is noticeably bigger than the other two. Admiral stars were supposed to fit a 3/8" circle,  army stars were 1" for the shoulder and 5/8" for the collar.

I misread your previous post. Didn’t see the “stars” after 5/8th inch. Thought you were referring to army ribbons. My apologies.

Hunt


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[seanmc1114]

Bridge watch aboard the USS Missouri during the battleship’s shakedown cruise to Trinidad, August 1944: Commanding officer Capt. William M Callaghan, Officer of the Deck Lt. Morris R. Eddy, and Yeoman 1st Class Arthur Colton

[seanmc1114]

Lieutenant Howard W. Whalen (in gray uniform) with other officers of USS Sanborn, 1945

 

Officers of the USS Sanborn - 1945

[seanmc1114]

Tulagi, Solomon Islands, circa 1945. Is the officer in shorts wearing a gray uniform?

[seanmc1114]

Lieutenant F. M. Edwards, Commander N. M. Carlson, Commander T. A. Gregg, Lieutenant Commander H. D. Lane, and Commander A. E. Wills at the Double Ten Day celebrations, Shanghai Race Course, China, 10 October 1945

[seanmc1114]

Gray or green?  I notice both uniforms have epaulettes. 

[Justin B.]

On 6/30/2020 at 11:51 AM, seanmc1114 said:

Tulagi, Solomon Islands, circa 1945. Is the officer in shorts wearing a gray uniform?

 

 

It's got to be.

 

3 minutes ago, seanmc1114 said:

Gray or green?  I notice both uniforms have epaulettes. 

 

Greens, the shoulder loops are the  giveaway.

[Salvage Sailor]

On 7/10/2020 at 4:03 AM, seanmc1114 said:

Gray or green?  I notice both uniforms have epaulettes. 

 

USN Aviation Greens

Greys have shoulder boards and no sleeve stripes

Greens have sleeve stripes and no shoulder boards.

 

[Justin B.]

Also the bronze buttons have a different look from the black plastic ones, even in B&W.

[David Minton]

Gray or green?  I notice both uniforms have epaulettes. 

The Chief appears to be wearing Aviation Green with silver bullion and scarlet chevrons rating badge.

As otherwise noted, gray uniforms have shoulder boards, and neither epaulettes nor cuff braid, for officers and warrant officers.


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[David Minton]

1 hour ago, Justin B. said:

Also the bronze buttons have a different look from the black plastic ones, even in B&W.

True, but don't forget when the Gray uniforms were first authorized, gold buttons were permitted, until sufficient black ones had been produced. You will see photos of gray uniforms with gold buttons and black with gold lace shoulder boards.

[Justin B.]

Just now, David Minton said:

True, but don't forget when the Gray uniforms were first authorized, gold buttons were permitted, until sufficient black ones had been produced. You will see photos of gray uniforms with gold buttons and black with gold lace shoulder boards.

 

Of course, I've posted about that earlier in the thread. But I don't think there is much chance of gilt buttons being confused with black or bronze.