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Study: USN WWII Gray Uniforms 1943-1949


Ricardo
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Capt. Benyaurd B. Wygant being presented the Legion of Merit by Vice Admiral Arthur S. Carpender. 7-30-1945. 

Navy Gray Uniform.Benyaurd Wygant.1945.jpg

 

There has been some discussion in this topic that Admiral Nimitz banned the gray uniform in the Pacific, but isn't this a gray uniform the Admiral is wearing in these photos with MacArthur? The photo captions gives the date as March 27, 1944.

Navy Gray Uniform.Nimitz.3-27-1944..2.jpg

Navy Gray Uniform.Nimitz.3-27-1944.jpg

 

Rear Admiral Don P. Moon had a tragic story during World War II. He was basically a workaholic who wore himself out, he was in command of the naval exercise at Slapton Sands leading up to D-Day, and he ultimately committed suicide on the eve of the invasion of Southern France.

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Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy at the Potsdam Conference in August 1945 along with a Lt. Eddlestein, probably an aide, wearing a green uniform.

4455ECCD-1D6A-4874-9836-D1989A523CC2.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, seanmc1114 said:

Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy at the Potsdam Conference in August 1945 along with a Lt. Eddlestein, probably an aide, wearing a green uniform.

4455ECCD-1D6A-4874-9836-D1989A523CC2.jpeg

I believe the green uniforms had black sleeve lace, rather than the rounded shoulder boards.  Additionally, the LT. does not appear to be an aviator. Believe this is a gray uniform. 

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18 minutes ago, sigsaye said:

I believe the green uniforms had black sleeve lace, rather than the rounded shoulder boards.  Additionally, the LT. does not appear to be an aviator. Believe this is a gray uniform. 

Yes, I meant gray uniform not green. Sorry.

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It's my listing and it is 100% original and was previously purchased from another forum member. I have owned and sold five grey jumpers over the years and this is the last of them. This piece differs only in the collar length and was manufactured that way and not tailor altered. Of the previous grey jumper sets I owned a couple were mint and the others though generally showing light use were greatly faded in comparison to the mint sets. My guess is the due lots used for rates tended to be more color fast.

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David Minton

Of all the materials used for WWII USN uniforms, I find gray to be the only one wildly inconstant in color, even when new.

I own a gray jumper myself, and my only hesitation is I have never seen one patched with anything but a Specialist S, but that is only anecdotal. I have not found the use of gray jumpers to be well documented.

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54 minutes ago, moremedals said:

It's my listing and it is 100% original and was previously purchased from another forum member. I have owned and sold five grey jumpers over the years and this is the last of them. This piece differs only in the collar length and was manufactured that way and not tailor altered. Of the previous grey jumper sets I owned a couple were mint and the others though generally showing light use were greatly faded in comparison to the mint sets. My guess is the due lots used for rates tended to be more color fast.

Thanks for the info. I certainly hope you didn't take my reply to suggest I believe the uniform is bogus. I know nothing about these uniforms and have been finding this topic very interesting. 

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Not at all. These are very hard to find and questions are warranted. I've also had mor then one grey CPO jacket with the rated darker than the coat. Again, I think it's a question of dye lots.

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David Minton
Not at all. These are very hard to find and questions are warranted. I've also had mor then one grey CPO jacket with the rated darker than the coat. Again, I think it's a question of dye lots.

Also, these were working uniforms that got washed a lot. For a jumper, there is a good chance the rate and hash marks to not be original when the uniform was issued, but added later in the war after promotion/time served. A faded 2c may have been removed after 1-2 years of use by the sailor (not suggested the seller made the change).

When I showed mine to a dealer, he felt almost all the value was in the jumper anyway, and would have paid almost the same without any patches. I have no idea of value as I lucked into mine on a poorly titled eBay posting a few years back.


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On 12/31/2020 at 1:12 PM, seanmc1114 said:

There has been some discussion in this topic that Admiral Nimitz banned the gray uniform in the Pacific, but isn't this a gray uniform the Admiral is wearing in these photos with MacArthur? The photo captions gives the date as March 27, 1944.

 

It certainly looks like grays. According King's biography by Thomas Buell, King inquired in early 1944 whether CINCPAC had banned grays, and Nimitz had to issue a directive that they were in fact authorized. In June 1944, columnist Drew Pearson wrote that Nimitz had "bowed" to King and grays were becoming an accepted uniform in Hawaii.

https://idnc.library.illinois.edu/?a=d&d=DIL19440621.2.21&e=-------en-20--1--img-txIN---------

 

The date on the photo is wrong, the only time Nimitz and MacArthur met during the war (until the surrender ceremonies) was July 26-27 1944. Admiral Leahy wore grays to the conference, maybe Nimitz also wore a set as a gesture of goodwill to COMINCH-CNO?

 

leahy_gray_1944.jpg.a9ea88d9f19a933f9bb1cfc76c85ffa7.jpg

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46 minutes ago, Justin B. said:

 

It certainly looks like grays. According King's biography by Thomas Buell, King inquired in early 1944 whether CINCPAC had banned grays, and Nimitz had to issue a directive that they were in fact authorized. In June 1944, columnist Drew Pearson wrote that Nimitz had "bowed" to King and grays were becoming an accepted uniform in Hawaii.

https://idnc.library.illinois.edu/?a=d&d=DIL19440621.2.21&e=-------en-20--1--img-txIN---------

 

The date on the photo is wrong, the only time Nimitz and MacArthur met during the war (until the surrender ceremonies) was July 26-27 1944. Admiral Leahy wore grays to the conference, maybe Nimitz also wore a set as a gesture of goodwill to COMINCH-CNO?

 

leahy_gray_1944.jpg.a9ea88d9f19a933f9bb1cfc76c85ffa7.jpg

Thanks for the info. I did wonder if the date of the photo might be wrong and whether it was from the July 1944 meeting.

 

Here is a photo of several officers wearing gray uniforms. The info I have for the photo says it was taken at Pearl Harbor in 1945, I believe.

Navy Gray Uniform.Pearl Harbor.1945.jpg

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This listing on worthpoint.com indicates the shoulder boards were just put there for display and are not original to the uniform. However, I think the photos are still interesting for the display of the Submariner's Badge as well as showing the manufacturer's tag.

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ww2-navy-grey-uniforms-hat-1837026127

Navy Gray Uniform.Officer.Submariner.1.jpg

Navy Gray Uniform.Officer.Submariner.2.jpg

Navy Gray Uniform.Officer.Submariner.3.jpg

Navy Gray Uniform.Officer.Submariner.4.jpg

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Photo caption reads: "Back from 20 months in the Pacific, Chief Warrant Officer Neel G. Barnaby, Seabees, is visiting relatives, Mr. and Mrs. V. D. Cushenberry. He is standing against a wall, wearing his military uniform.

Date Created: 1945-07-11"

Navy Gray Uniform.Warrant Officer.1945.jpg

 

Photo caption: "Sons of the Bransom family of Burleson, Texas, are shown examining souvenirs of two theaters of World War II. Left to right, the sons of Mr. and Mrs. Mallie Bransom are: W. D. Bransom, Douglas Bransom, M. W. Bransom (all sailors), Staff Sergeant Rob Bransom, and sailor Tommy Bransom, together for the first time in nine years. The group is sitting on the floor around a scrapbook and looking at the souvenirs. They are all wearing their military uniforms.

Date Created: 1945-12-04"

Navy Gray Uniform.CPO.2.jpg

 

Photo caption: "Ensign Joe T. Wallace is serving with the United States Navy. He was commissioned at Plattsburg, New York in July 1944 after completing V-12 training at Texas Christian University. Ensign Wallace was on an Landing Ship Medium (LSM) at Iwo Jima when he saw the American flag being raised over the island by the six Marines. The scene he personally witnessed has since made photographic history and is now being used in the 7th War Loan Drive. Ensign Wallace is shown standing against a wall, dressed in his military uniform.

Date Created: 1945-05-30"

Navy Gray Uniform.Ensign.1945.jpg

 

Photo caption: "Elvious Moore, Chief Commissary Steward, a veteran of eight and a half years with the Navy, has returned to Fort Worth, Texas, after a year's service in Hawaii. He is visiting his wife, the former Miss Billye House, and his three-year-old son, Tommy. Moore enlisted in the Navy after graduating from Stripling High School and has been at Guadalcanal, New Hebrides and Nomeau since the war began. He is standing against a wall, dressed in his military uniform.

 

Date Created: 1944-08-04"

Navy Gray Uniform.1944.Mess Steward.jpg

 

Photo caption: "Boatswain Curtis H. Michael has served eight years with the United States Navy. He spent two years at the South Pole with a Admiral Byrd. He was home in Fort Worth, Texas to visit his wife and their two sons - Elton Earl and Raymond Terry. Before joining the Navy, Michael graduated from old Vocational High School. He is standing against a wall, dressed in his military uniform.

 

Date Created: 1944-05-29"

Navy Gray Uniform.1944.Boatswain.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

The first photo shows Captain Daniel V. Gallery, Jr. and Lieutenant Junior Grade Albert L. David on board USS Guadalcanal (CVE-60) in June 1944. On 4 June 1944 Lieutenant Junior Grade David led the boarding party that took control of the German submarine U-505 after it was forced to surface by Guadalcanal's task force. This capture of an enemy warship on the high seas was the first by the U.S. Navy since 1815. Albert David was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for his leadership and bravery during this action.

 

Lt. David appears to be wearing a gray cap. 

 

 

U-505.1.jpeg

 

4 June 1944 Crew members of USS Pillsbury (DE-133), who made up the the first party to board U-505 after she had been abandoned by her German crew. They are (from left to right): GM1/c Chester Mocarski; EM2/c William Riendeau; CMM George Jacobson; MOMM1/c Zenon Lukosivs; SM2/c Gordon Hohne; BM2/c Wayne Pickles, Jr.; RM2/c Stanley E. Wdowiak; and TM2/c Arthur W. Knispel. 

 

I believe the Chief third from left is wearing a gray uniform.

U-505.2.jpeg

 

Captain Daniel V. Gallery presenting a Nazi submarine flag, captured from German U-Boat, U-505, to Admiral Jonas H. Ingram at the Navy Department in Washington, D.C. Secretary of the Navy James V. Forrestal is behind Admiral Ingram, May 16, 1945.

U-505.3.jpg

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26 minutes ago, seanmc1114 said:

4 June 1944 Crew members of USS Pillsbury (DE-133), who made up the the first party to board U-505 after she had been abandoned by her German crew. They are (from left to right): GM1/c Chester Mocarski; EM2/c William Riendeau; CMM George Jacobson; MOMM1/c Zenon Lukosivs; SM2/c Gordon Hohne; BM2/c Wayne Pickles, Jr.; RM2/c Stanley E. Wdowiak; and TM2/c Arthur W. Knispel. 

 

I believe the Chief third from left is wearing a gray uniform.

U-505.2.jpeg

The Chief is wearing dungarees, like everyone else. But, agree his cap cover is gray. 

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31 minutes ago, seanmc1114 said:

Captain Daniel V. Gallery presenting a Nazi submarine flag, captured from German U-Boat, U-505, to Admiral Jonas H. Ingram at the Navy Department in Washington, D.C. Secretary of the Navy James V. Forrestal is behind Admiral Ingram, May 16, 1945.

U-505.3.jpg

 

Good example of the wartime blues "half lace" on the admiral's sleeves.

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  • 2 months later...

I thought I might add a pretty rare bird to this topic. A USPHS Warrant Officer in Gray. This came from a local estate sale but sadly, the seller had been a collector so no known provenance as far as the original owner...  Scott

DSCN7617.JPG

DSCN7618.JPG

DSCN7619.JPG

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On 1/18/2021 at 8:03 AM, seanmc1114 said:

4 June 1944 Crew members of USS Pillsbury (DE-133), who made up the the first party to board U-505 after she had been abandoned by her German crew. They are (from left to right): GM1/c Chester Mocarski; EM2/c William Riendeau; CMM George Jacobson; MOMM1/c Zenon Lukosivs; SM2/c Gordon Hohne; BM2/c Wayne Pickles, Jr.; RM2/c Stanley E. Wdowiak; and TM2/c Arthur W. Knispel. 

 

I believe the Chief third from left is wearing a gray uniform.

U-505.2.jpeg

I would say, he’s actually wearing dungarees with a gray cover on his combination cap. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
WAC_GIRL1944

IIRC- Didn't Admiral King want the ENTIRE Navy to switch to grey? He considered blue to be "too British"?

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Brian Keith
On 3/27/2021 at 4:43 PM, ScottG said:

I thought I might add a pretty rare bird to this topic. A USPHS Warrant Officer in Gray. This came from a local estate sale but sadly, the seller had been a collector so no known provenance as far as the original owner...  Scott

DSCN7617.JPG

DSCN7618.JPG

DSCN7619.JPG

That is a Great uniform! PHS is one of the unusual uniformed organizations of the US Government. Even grey PHS shoulder boards and subdued buttons! I think the 1943 National Geographic covers the PHS insignia. I try to pick up PHS uniform and insignia when I find it, very uncommon!

Thanks for posting it!

BKW

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David Minton
IIRC- Didn't Admiral King want the ENTIRE Navy to switch to grey? He considered blue to be "too British"?

My understanding is gray was to replace khaki, which King felt more appropriate for land forces. Tough to dispute his logic.


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