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Study: USN WWII Gray Uniforms 1943-1949


Ricardo
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Salvage Sailor

Another ID'd USN Medical Officer - LCDR (MC), Probably an East Coast Doctor as it's a winter weight with lining.

 

LCDR BAKER (MC) 002.jpg

 

LCDR BAKER (MC) 003.jpg

 

Made by Clothcraft Joseph & Feiss Co., Menlo Park (Cleveland) Ohio, once the largest clothing factory in the USA. During World War II, Joseph & Feiss was a major producer of uniforms for the US Army and Navy.

 

The LT Grey in post #27 of this topic is also a Joseph & Feiss, despite the Halle Bros. label, as that was a J&F trade name. Both of these Greys have Union labels in the inside pockets Identifying them as J&S made. Another characteristic of these jackets are the upper outside pockets with snaps to keep them flush and two interior pockets in the linings. The black buttons are also sewn onto the pocket flaps and not removable as many other brands are. The three large black buttons are also sewn to the jacket and not removable.

 

LCDR BAKER (MC) 004.jpg

 

LCDR BAKER (MC) 006.jpg

 

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Salvage Sailor

Here's an interesting Grey as it's a very early date, September 25th, 1943. Also identified to a retread LT who became a CDR on the East Coast, probably a staff officer.

 

CDR BURROUGHS 001.jpg

 

Fully tailored, winter weight, with removable ringed buttons (always an early indicator) and no sewn snaps on the pocket flaps. The pockets and seams are outlined with copper thread as you can see.

 

CDR BURROUGHS 002.jpg

 

It has a full copper colored interior lining with two pockets. Made in 1943 by Frank Cohen, Mill St., Newport Rhode Island (also home to the Naval War College, a large training station, several naval depots, and many training schools, plus the Seabees). I'd wager that this officer was assigned to one of these facilities in WWII. Frank Cohen was known for "elegant custom tailoring" in naval uniforms stretching back to WWI and they advertised in many naval magazines and graduation annuals.

 

CDR BURROUGHS 003.jpg

 

CDR BURROUGHS 004.jpg

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This is a great topic. I recently ran across this picture of King wearing what I assume is the gray uniform

 

post-154098-0-41263700-1565738942_thumb.jpg

 

 

But zoomed in the pants seem to have a HBT weave.....any thoughts

 

post-154098-0-84755100-1565739043_thumb.jpg

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The cut of the shirt pocket almost reminds me of a USMC style shirt cut; but anyway it does appear it could be the slate grays he is wearing. I'm confused more by his service cap; it appears to lack scrambled eggs on the visor. Anyway the regs called for differences in hat configuration (chinstrap buttons) when wearing greys, but those tend to go out the window in part or whole when flag officers are involved. Tough to be certain with monochromatic pictures without knowing more about the film and filters used when it was taken.

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The cut of the shirt pocket almost reminds me of a USMC style shirt cut; but anyway it does appear it could be the slate grays he is wearing. I'm confused more by his service cap; it appears to lack scrambled eggs on the visor. Anyway the regs called for differences in hat configuration (chinstrap buttons) when wearing greys, but those tend to go out the window in part or whole when flag officers are involved. Tough to be certain with monochromatic pictures without knowing more about the film and filters used when it was taken.

Yes definitely hard to tell. You mentioned about the lack of scrambled eggs on his cap. I am not sure if I have seen a photo of King wearing the gray cap and it having the scrambled eggs. Phots of others of the rank that would have them, do. Also his belt is interesting.

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Yes definitely hard to tell. You mentioned about the lack of scrambled eggs on his cap. I am not sure if I have seen a photo of King wearing the gray cap and it having the scrambled eggs. Phots of others of the rank that would have them, do. Also his belt is interesting.

. The scrambled eggs were not required for the gray uniform. They are expensive, so I can see going cheap on them. As for the belt, civilian leather belts were very commonly worn, even with enlisted dungarees.
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USCG gray shirt -

 

 

That's great!

 

But zoomed in the pants seem to have a HBT weave.....any thoughts

 

attachicon.gif11b.JPG

 

When King started experimenting with a working uniform in 1942, he had one made from regular green HBT and wore it instead of khaki with, I assume, a khaki shirt. Later he decided to go with the gray. I don't know if he had the green HBT dyed gray of he still wore it green later on. The uniform above does appear to be darker like the gray uniform but with HBT weave.

 

The original HBT uniform from August 1942:

post-3982-0-96841300-1565744347.jpg

 

 

 

 

The cut of the shirt pocket almost reminds me of a USMC style shirt cut; but anyway it does appear it could be the slate grays he is wearing. I'm confused more by his service cap; it appears to lack scrambled eggs on the visor. Anyway the regs called for differences in hat configuration (chinstrap buttons) when wearing greys, but those tend to go out the window in part or whole when flag officers are involved. Tough to be certain with monochromatic pictures without knowing more about the film and filters used when it was taken.

When King started overhauling officer uniforms in 1943, his idea was that gold chinstraps and scrambled egg would only be worn on "dress" blues and whites. For "service" blues and woirking khakis and grays, black chinstrap and plain visors, and the blues would be worn with a gray shirt and only have stripes on the outer half of the sleeve. When it was pointed out in the press that officers would have to spend a lot of money to buy new caps and chinstraps and to have the sleeve stripes altered, King had to back down and it all became optional the next month.

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Salvage Sailor

Here's a rate not often seen on USN Greys (thus far)

 

Chief Carpenters Mate - No manufacturers label nor union label on this one, no inside pockets. It is a very well made medium weight uniform very similar to Khakis I've had from other groupings.

 

post-2322-0-59511300-1565744845.jpg

 

Nice cut and good seams throughout. All removable pin type black buttons.

 

Chief Carpenters Mate Unnamed 002.jpg

 

Chief Carpenters Mate Unnamed 003.jpg

 

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Commandant of the CG in the gray uniform. Of interest is the CG shield on the shank of the anchor. Up to about 1943 the CG flag officer shoulder mark insignia was the same as the USN, just the anchor.

 

 

post-162267-0-39016600-1565745209_thumb.jpg

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Salvage Sailor

Named full LT - Made by Jacob Reed's Sons of Philadelphia dated 1944, with the matching button up trousers

 

LT R.H. EMMICH 003.jpg

 

LT R.H. EMMICH 004.jpg

 

Named full LT - Made by Jacob Reed's Sons of Philadelphia (1944), very similar to the Carpteners Mate Chief shown above, medium weight, no interior pockets, removable pin type black buttons.

 

LT R.H. EMMICH 001.jpg

 

LT R.H. EMMICH 002.jpg

 

LT R.H. EMMICH 005.jpg

 

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Here's a rate not often seen on USN Greys (thus far)

 

Chief Carpenters Mate -

 

Here is a private purchase uniform with the rate in bullion -

 

post-8013-0-05583300-1565751874.jpg

 

Tailor's labels-

 

post-8013-0-93833900-1565751887.jpg

 

post-8013-0-63582400-1565751906.jpg

 

Larry

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When King started overhauling officer uniforms in 1943, his idea was that gold chinstraps and scrambled egg would only be worn on "dress" blues and whites. For "service" blues and woirking khakis and grays, black chinstrap and plain visors, and the blues would be worn with a gray shirt and only have stripes on the outer half of the sleeve. When it was pointed out in the press that officers would have to spend a lot of money to buy new caps and chinstraps and to have the sleeve stripes altered, King had to back down and it all became optional the next month.

 

Very true! The details of the hats slipped my mind (a good reason not to post when tired and awaiting a medical test :lol: )

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My uncle made Chief in 1943. He loved the Grays! Most of the guys he knew did also. Many, who already had khaki chose to stay with khaki because they didnt want to spend the money to replace what they had. My uncle said that, The Army and Marines wore khaki, who wants to look like them?

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Very true! The details of the hats slipped my mind (a good reason not to post when tired and awaiting a medical test :lol: )

 

I also forgot to add, where the "undress" combination cap was appropriate, a garrison cap of the corresponding color could be substituted.

 

King liked to tinker with uniforms. When he was COMCARDIV he made officers wear whites on top with blue trousers and black shoes in warm weather. It was not popular, but when he became CNO he made it official as Service Dress E. I don't think I've ever seen a picture of that combination in the wild.
He also had his own unique whites, basically a white version of a khaki or gray jacket, with a white shirt and black tie.
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  • 1 month later...
Salvage Sailor

USNR named Officer (no boards) with USNR Bullion breast eagle

 

USNR Uniform 001.jpg

 

USNR Uniform 002.jpg

 

USNR Uniform 003.jpg

 

USNR Bullion Eagle, another winter weight Clothcraft by the Joseph & Feiss Company

 

USNR Uniform 004.jpg

 

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That embroidered breast badge is great! The boards would have been interesting, this officer was probably wearing the uniform in merchant service. The USN regs of the day were very clear that the merchant marine reserve insignia "shall not be worn with the naval uniform."

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  • 3 weeks later...
David Minton

That's my thinking too, that this is a USMS uniform and would have had Merchant Marine boards.

It has USN buttons though.

 

I’m looking for some gray USMS gray boards myself. I have USN, USCG, and USPHS.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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It has USN buttons though.

 

True, but I doubt anybody would have given a second thought to a reservist MM officer wearing his navy jacket and not bothering to change the buttons.

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Salvage Sailor

USCG Boards - LCDR - LT - ENS (but look closely at the ENS boards, they started out life as USCG LT(jg) boards)

 

02a.jpg

 

03a.jpg

 

04a.jpg

 

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Salvage Sailor

CPO Carpenters Mate full uniform with grey shirt, tie and combination hat - old photos, I'll add new ones later on (I've also have his khakis and blues)

 

001 lg.jpg

 

002 lg.jpg

 

003 lg.jpg

 

004 lg.jpg

 

005 lg.jpg

 

006 lg.jpg

 

007 lg.jpg

 

008 lg.jpg

 

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