mdk0911 Posted May 24, 2019 Share #1 Posted May 24, 2019 What think all? https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/72238495_40138-d-day-first-american-flag-planted-on-normandy-b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted May 24, 2019 Share #2 Posted May 24, 2019 Gee, the photo of the flag looks a whole lot better than the obviously stained one in the B&W photo. I guess I ain't buying that this is the same flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhcoleterracina Posted May 24, 2019 Share #3 Posted May 24, 2019 The news article says it's a frayed American flag, stained etc. I guess they might have meant fringed instead of frayed and perhaps it's been cleaned since I don't see the stains. Not a good start. I buy WW2 flags all the time, usually a Navy flag that the family is selling and attributing to a specific sailor who was on a perhaps obscure ship in the Pacific. Generally I believe these stories. However, anytime the flag is attributed to D-Day, Pearl Harbor (except Kurt S. PH flag) or Iwo Jima another flag goes up. A big red one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMechanic Posted May 25, 2019 Share #4 Posted May 25, 2019 You would think that given the potential historical importance (if authentic) of this flag and the $25,000 opening bid price, that they would have provided more than one photo of the actual flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 25, 2019 Share #5 Posted May 25, 2019 For posterity's sake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 25, 2019 Share #6 Posted May 25, 2019 And the auction description... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 25, 2019 Share #7 Posted May 25, 2019 Missed one screenshot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnDuc49 Posted May 25, 2019 Share #8 Posted May 25, 2019 Kinda sitting on the fence with this one, but I would wonder if it wasn't washed by Ms. Horvath or maybe even Sgt. Horvath? At that point in time, if that did happen, I doubt they thought much about it. I've heard Marine and Army vets coming home from the Pacific and were told by their wives to "clean" their souvenir flags before taking inside the house, so just curious if something similar happened here. Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbUSWM Posted May 25, 2019 Share #9 Posted May 25, 2019 Why is a fringed flag on a beach? Just curious if that was common practice. I have seen flags in landings and on beachheads but none had office fringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhcoleterracina Posted May 25, 2019 Share #10 Posted May 25, 2019 I've seen evidence in prior purchases that flags had being cleaned or the tattered end being cut straight by the family (well intentioned wives). As much as we wish things would be left alone, they weren't. I thought that there was mention of a bullet hole? I wish I could see some area proving that this was the flag in the picture. Let's say that we are convinced that this was the flag that Horvath sent home to his wife. We still have just one serviceman's claim that this was the first flag flown after the invasion. As said, a fringed flag on the beach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 25, 2019 Share #11 Posted May 25, 2019 I've seen evidence in prior purchases that flags had being cleaned or the tattered end being cut straight by the family (well intentioned wives). As much as we wish things would be left alone, they weren't. I thought that there was mention of a bullet hole? I wish I could see some area proving that this was the flag in the picture. Let's say that we are convinced that this was the flag that Horvath sent home to his wife. We still have just one serviceman's claim that this was the first flag flown after the invasion. As said, a fringed flag on the beach? It would be REALLY awesome to see a photo of it on the beach. My dad's stepdad brought a Japanese rifle home from the war. It had quite the story about how he had killed the "dirty so-and-so" who had tried to kill him with it and such. But...he never made it off his ship during combat and most likely, picked it up while on occupation duty. So who knows if Horvath might have been making up a story about this flag. Maybe it did happen. Maybe it didn't. Unless there's a photo of it somewhere, it's his word from a letter that he sent to his wife. For some people, that may be sufficient provenance (and I'm sure it will be to some people with really deep pockets!) But for us collectors of "normal" means, going down this road and dropping enough money to potentially buy a house (I wouldn't be shocked if this reaches well into six digits...) I'd certainly want iron-clad proof that it is what it's claimed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdurbinmas Posted May 25, 2019 Share #12 Posted May 25, 2019 Why is a fringed flag on a beach? Just curious if that was common practice. I have seen flags in landings and on beachheads but none had office fringe. Hi AJ, Without much better documentation and evidence that this flag was at Normandy on D-Day, the HA auction flag is just one of hundreds like it. All were manufactured by the PQMD and issued to each unit entitled to a set of "colors". In WW2 each Regiment had a set of colors made of silk or rayon, 52" x 66" depending on when they were made. Those flags were always fringed. Battalions also had similar fringed flags in the 36" x 48". The official silk colors always went with the unit into battle and were stored with the appropriate HQ personnel/unit commander. I have examples of all types (wool/rayon/silk) of US national flags made by PQMD in each size. They all have the same type of generic PQMD inspection label, usually with a faint date stamp, many times just blank. From everything I've been able to research on this topic Army units always had fringed flags. The only non-fringed flags were the outdoor flags with canvas headers and grommets or rings for hanging. The Army regs called for US National flags used as "service flags" to be made of wool, but they were still fringed.These service flags were to be used during inclement weather and for routine on-base activities so the more fragile silk/rayon flags could be preserved. TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted May 25, 2019 Share #13 Posted May 25, 2019 What think all? https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/72238495_40138-d-day-first-american-flag-planted-on-normandy-b I think too little proof of authenticity.for too much money. I like buying stories instead of type pieces, but the stories must be clear and convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchbuff Posted May 25, 2019 Share #14 Posted May 25, 2019 Yeah, doesn't make sense to have a flag like that on the beach. Shipboard flags with history is one thing, but not a fringed flag. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Jerry Posted May 26, 2019 Share #15 Posted May 26, 2019 Honestly the not having it on the pole is the part that bothers me, these were generally "cased" on the pole, and covered with a canvas cover over it all. I could see the unit colors and the US flag being taken on the beach, but why take them off the pole? But as said for that kind of money I would want rock solid provenance, rather than somewhat generic attribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z19 Posted May 26, 2019 Share #16 Posted May 26, 2019 Talk about buying a pig in a poke!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z19 Posted May 26, 2019 Share #17 Posted May 26, 2019 It's all about the dollars guys.... if this one does well they'll have the stars and bars used during Pickett's charge next auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbUSWM Posted June 9, 2019 Share #18 Posted June 9, 2019 The flag sold for $130,000 or $162,500 with fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbranch Posted June 9, 2019 Share #19 Posted June 9, 2019 What's with the fixation on spending gobs of money on WW2 flags??? They're cool and all. But $100,000+??? Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken88 Posted June 9, 2019 Share #20 Posted June 9, 2019 I thought I'd share this on here... I saw a documentary about this flag on a Dutch channel a few days back. It's also claimed to be the first flag planted on the beach on D-day, was bought by a Dutch investor a few years back for around 500.000 and the owners have claimed to want to donate it to the American people. Word has it president Trump is going to receive it in the Netherlands later this summer. The article is in Dutch but you'll notice that the flag is a different one. https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/nederlander-koopt-de-eerste-vlag-van-d-day~b57022b5/?referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F Credit Photo: vlaggenkunde.nl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbUSWM Posted June 9, 2019 Share #21 Posted June 9, 2019 I hate to break it to them but the first flag planted during the invasion was by the US 4th Cavalry Group under Lt Col Edward Dunn (later Maj Gen) land off the St Marcouf islands (3 miles off the Normandy coast) at 4:30am in total darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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