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GIl Sanow

Green Combat Leader stripe

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Hi Shade,

 

That's what I thought too. There seem to be plenty of examples of them being worn on IKE jackets but very few on field jackets apparently. It might also be interesting to note that the men in the photos were members of the signal company.

 

Greetings,

Carl


ALWAYS LOOKING FOR 106TH INFANTRY DIVISION ITEMS!!

My website http://106thinfantry.webs.com

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Wailuna brought this to my attention and asked me to post a photo from my collection to this thread. This is a 4x5 negative from a photo studio in Knoxville, Tn. and was taken in september 1945. The combat leaders stripe clearly shows up on his IKE.

 

 

Mike

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A collecter of photographs

Always looking for PTO related photos and photo albums. also looking for 134th CB USN and 711th railroad operating battalion photos and photo albums.

 

Mike Harpe

 

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Wailuna brought this to my attention and asked me to post a photo from my collection to this thread. This is a 4x5 negative from a photo studio in Knoxville, Tn. and was taken in september 1945. The combat leaders stripe clearly shows up on his IKE.

 

 

Mike

 

Great shot! Also to note...individual ribbon bars! I know a lot of people won' buy a uniform because of that very reason. Here's some photographic evidence.


Looking for any WWII 104th "Timberwolf" Division items.

Including items from the 413th, 414th, and 415th Infantry Regiments 104th Recon Troop, 329th Engineer Battalion, 329th Medical Battalion

385th, 386th, 387th, and 929th Field Artillery Battalions 804th Ordnance Company 104th Quartermaster Company 104th Signal Company

555th Anti-Aircraft Battalion, 750th Tank Battalion 692nd Tank Destroyer Battalion 817th Tank Destroyer Battalion

 

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The focus of this topic has been the enlisted “green stripe” created by Ike and approved by Marshall for combat leaders in ETO (link here) but these examples of the corresponding “green stripe” for officers are too good to pass up.

 

The first shows Lt. Gen. Bradley wearing the stripe while commanding 12th Army Group ca. mid- to late 1944:

 

post-1963-0-61007000-1363806485.jpg

 

The second shows Gen. Bradley, still in command of 12th Army Group, at New York City, June 3, 1945:

 

post-1963-0-15161700-1363806514.jpg

 

Evidently Ike and Bradley modified their original intent to restrict this recognition to Army commanders and lower. Gen. Devers also wore the "green stripe" and perhaps someone will post a picture of him wearing the stripe along with 6th Army Group SSI.


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Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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I have a quick question about this. I've been following this post for a good while, but have yet to find any answer to this. What did a soldier have to do exactly to earn/wear these during WWII? Was this something a unit CO would designate? I'm wondering if this wasn't a type of unofficial award per say. For example say you did an effective job at running your squad or performing your duties, but not enough to warrant a BSM or higher, that these combat leader stripes would be awarded for that. I've noticed that many of these ike jackets don't have any valor awards hence my theory.

 

I also need to post a recent yard long I picked up. It's to the 104th Divisions 386th Field Artillery Battalion HQ Battery. I can pick out a total of 8 enlisted men wearing them, this is the most I've ever seen before. I'm especially surprised as this is an artillery unit.


Looking for any WWII 104th "Timberwolf" Division items.

Including items from the 413th, 414th, and 415th Infantry Regiments 104th Recon Troop, 329th Engineer Battalion, 329th Medical Battalion

385th, 386th, 387th, and 929th Field Artillery Battalions 804th Ordnance Company 104th Quartermaster Company 104th Signal Company

555th Anti-Aircraft Battalion, 750th Tank Battalion 692nd Tank Destroyer Battalion 817th Tank Destroyer Battalion

 

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I should think a section, squad or platoon leader would qualify, as would a company commander and probably the XO. Certainly a battalion and regimental commander would qualify. I have seen them on GO's too. I think the issue was a position of combat leadership as opposed to a staff or support position.

 

It sure would be nice if someone would uncover and publish the actual ETO orders involved. The citations above describe it, but do not appear to be the actual authorization. I know I have never seen this anywhere.

 

G



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I should think a section, squad or platoon leader would qualify, as would a company commander and probably the XO. Certainly a battalion and regimental commander would qualify. I have seen them on GO's too. I think the issue was a position of combat leadership as opposed to a staff or support position.

 

It sure would be nice if someone would uncover and publish the actual ETO orders involved. The citations above describe it, but do not appear to be the actual authorization. I know I have never seen this anywhere.

 

G

 

Gil,

 

I know this response may be an over simplification of it but then technically shouldn't all NCO's in an combat infantry regiment wear them? Yet not ever NCO in WWII we see has them. I think there may have been something more too them. I'll have to get this photo up, but in the 413th IR's unit history book there is a pic of a PFC wearing them on his service shirt. That's not an NCO position at all, I still think it may be some type of recognition for soldiers from CO's. It would be nice if the ETO orders were found.


Looking for any WWII 104th "Timberwolf" Division items.

Including items from the 413th, 414th, and 415th Infantry Regiments 104th Recon Troop, 329th Engineer Battalion, 329th Medical Battalion

385th, 386th, 387th, and 929th Field Artillery Battalions 804th Ordnance Company 104th Quartermaster Company 104th Signal Company

555th Anti-Aircraft Battalion, 750th Tank Battalion 692nd Tank Destroyer Battalion 817th Tank Destroyer Battalion

 

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Here's the photo of the PFC I was referring to:

 

post-5589-0-03664700-1400688856.jpg

 

The 104th made contact with the Soviets on April 26th 1945. So this would be a pretty early shot.


Looking for any WWII 104th "Timberwolf" Division items.

Including items from the 413th, 414th, and 415th Infantry Regiments 104th Recon Troop, 329th Engineer Battalion, 329th Medical Battalion

385th, 386th, 387th, and 929th Field Artillery Battalions 804th Ordnance Company 104th Quartermaster Company 104th Signal Company

555th Anti-Aircraft Battalion, 750th Tank Battalion 692nd Tank Destroyer Battalion 817th Tank Destroyer Battalion

 

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Here's the photo of the PFC I was referring to:

 

post-1963-0-42070300-1384225414.jpg

 

The 104th made contact with the Soviets on April 26th 1945. So this would be a pretty early shot.

 

Interesting (and please excuse the liberty taken to "flip" the original "mirror" image).

 

It is possible that this PFC held a leadership position in an NCO-depleted unit but It would be nice to calibrate these anomalies against the actual directive. Maybe one will turn up here someday. Meanwhile, we can only look on and wonder what gives, as with this other potential case of green strip abuse (re. post 95):

 

post-1963-0-56912700-1384225452.jpg


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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

post-24355-0-52548100-1420800713.png

 

 

Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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A double green stripe sighting in 327th Engineer Combat Battalion, 102nd Infantry Division, ca. 1945.

 

post-1963-0-73108100-1384226602.jpg


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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

post-24355-0-52548100-1420800713.png

 

 

Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Meanwhile, we can only look on and wonder what gives, as with this other potential case of green strip abuse (re. post 95):

 

attachicon.gifUSAAF 1st Sergeant with green stripe.jpg

Wailuna,

 

Please expand on why you believe this First Sergeant's wear of the combat leader stripe to be abuse. I certainly don't view it as such.

 

Shade Ruff

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Wailuna,

 

Please expand on why you believe this First Sergeant's wear of the combat leader stripe to be abuse. I certainly don't view it as such.

 

Shade Ruff

Perhaps because he's in the Air Corps?

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Perhaps because he's in the Air Corps?

 

patches,

 

The fact he is serving in the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) has no bearing on the matter as the USAAF followed the uniform regulations of the U.S. Army until they became a separate service - the United States Air Force - in 1947.

 

This 1SG is in correct uniform to include wear of the combat leader stripes.

 

Shade Ruff

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The fact he is serving in the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) has no bearing on the matter as the USAAF followed the uniform regulations of the U.S. Army until they became a separate service - the United States Air Force - in 1947.

 

Correct. However, Ike’s green stripes were not covered by Army Regulations during WWII. As shown in the following document, Ike acted on his own authority as Commander of ETOUSA to create these “distinctive markings” for units under his command and informed Gen. Marshall after the fact (and which Marshall immediately approved).

 

post-1963-0-51102700-1384375945.jpg

 

If Headquarters ETOUSA published directives on these “distinctive markings” no one following this thread seems to know anything about them. But each of us can interpret Eisenhower’s letter to Marshall as to Ike’s explicit motives and intentions, and to draw inferences as to how this “project” might have been implemented. I infer that Ike (and Bradley and Marshall) meant these “distinctive markings” to confer recognition on commanders and leaders of the ETOUSA ground forces that would soon be landing on the continent and thereafter fighting their way across Europe until V-E Day and, consequently, that commanders and leaders of USAAF combat and service units were excluded this “project” (and excluded most likely with the concurrence of Lt. Gen. Spaatz, commander of US Army Air Forces for ETOUSA, who, like Bradley, had good working and personal relationships with Ike).

 

And here is a further observation on the specific case of the USAAF first sergeant wearing the green stripe: As the back story to this photo is a known unknown at this Forum, my interpretation is that the picture was taken long after V-E Day (ca. 1947 — note his 4 collar discs). Even if the first sergeant rated a green stripe for ground combat leadership in ETO during WWII (of which there is no evidence shown in the picture itself) it is hard to image why he would still be wearing a green stripe so long after the war ended. So, that’s my WAG and I am sticking to it.


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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

post-24355-0-52548100-1420800713.png

 

 

Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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However, Ike’s green stripes were not covered by Army Regulations during WWII.

 

I infer that Ike (and Bradley and Marshall) meant these “distinctive markings” to confer recognition on commanders and leaders of the ETOUSA ground forces that would soon be landing on the continent and thereafter fighting their way across Europe until V-E Day and, consequently, that commanders and leaders of USAAF combat and service units were excluded this “project” (and excluded most likely with the concurrence of Lt. Gen. Spaatz, commander of US Army Air Forces for ETOUSA, who, like Bradley, had good working and personal relationships with Ike).

 

And here is a further observation on the specific case of the USAAF first sergeant wearing the green stripe: As the back story to this photo is a known unknown at this Forum, my interpretation is that the picture was taken long after V-E Day (ca. 1947 — note his 4 collar discs). Even if the first sergeant rated a green stripe for ground combat leadership in ETO during WWII (of which there is no evidence shown in the picture itself) it is hard to image why he would still be wearing a green stripe so long after the war ended. So, that’s my WAG and I am sticking to it.

 

Wailuna,

 

Although we have yet to confirm the green combat leader stripe was codified in an Army regulation during WWII, it does not mean that such a governing regulation did not exist.

 

We have plentiful photographic evidence in this thread of the green combat leader stripe in wear after hostilities in Europe ceased to include pictures of soldiers wearing them once they returned to CONUS at demob. As you noted, the USAAF 1SG in question may well have been entitled to his green combat leader stripes during the war. It could just as well be the case he was entitled to them post war if that is when he assumed his 1SG duty position. It would strike me as particularly odd that a 1SG with 15 years active service (to include two years of overseas wartime service) would knowingly violate established uniform regulations by wearing green combat leader stripes he wasn't entitled to wear.

 

Currently, designated U.S. Army troop leaders wear the green combat leader tab irrespective of whether engaged in active combat.

 

Shade Ruff

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Wailuna,

 

Although we have yet to confirm the green combat leader stripe was codified in an Army regulation during WWII, it does not mean that such a governing regulation did not exist.

 

We have plentiful photographic evidence in this thread of the green combat leader stripe in wear after hostilities in Europe ceased to include pictures of soldiers wearing them once they returned to CONUS at demob. As you noted, the USAAF 1SG in question may well have been entitled to his green combat leader stripes during the war. It could just as well be the case he was entitled to them post war if that is when he assumed his 1SG duty position. It would strike me as particularly odd that a 1SG with 15 years active service (to include two years of overseas wartime service) would knowingly violate established uniform regulations by wearing green combat leader stripes he wasn't entitled to wear.

 

Currently, designated U.S. Army troop leaders wear the green combat leader tab irrespective of whether engaged in active combat.

 

Shade Ruff

 

Interesting but I'll stand by my previously stated WAGs. Goodbye.


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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

post-24355-0-52548100-1420800713.png

 

 

Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Interesting but I'll stand by my previously stated WAGs. Goodbye.

 

Wailuna,

 

You are certainly free to stand by your position. Forum users will draw their own conclusions after reviewing the differing viewpoints presented in this thread.

 

Shade Ruff

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The focus of this topic has been the enlisted “green stripe” created by Ike and approved by Marshall for combat leaders in ETO (link here) but these examples of the corresponding “green stripe” for officers are too good to pass up.

 

The first shows Lt. Gen. Bradley wearing the stripe while commanding 12th Army Group ca. mid- to late 1944:

 

attachicon.gif3-star Bradley green stripe.jpg

The second shows Gen. Bradley, still in command of 12th Army Group, at New York City, June 3, 1945:

 

attachicon.gif4-star Bradley green stripe.jpg

Evidently Ike and Bradley modified their original intent to restrict this recognition to Army commanders and lower. Gen. Devers also wore the "green stripe" and perhaps someone will post a picture of him wearing the stripe along with 6th Army Group SSI.

 

 

 

Correct. However, Ike’s green stripes were not covered by Army Regulations during WWII. As shown in the following document, Ike acted on his own authority as Commander of ETOUSA to create these “distinctive markings” for units under his command and informed Gen. Marshall after the fact (and which Marshall immediately approved).

attachicon.gifIke to Dear General.jpg

Here's another shot of Bradley wearing the tabs as a four star and presumably wearing the 12th Army Group SSI. Until I saw wailuna's letter from Ike to Marshall, it never occurred to me that wear would be restricted to Army commanders. However, when the letter was written, I think you can say there technically were no Army Groups in existence. I guess the fictitious First Army Group used to mislead the Germans about the Allied intentions for landing in France existed on paper, but I don't know if that really counts.

post-1761-0-84580000-1385045799.jpg

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Here's an interesting one. General Jacob Devers wearing the leadership tabs as commander of the Army Ground Forces post-World War II. AGF certainly had combat units under its command, but it was not exactly a tactical command itself.

post-1761-0-76322100-1385046662.jpg

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And here's one of Gen. Devers wearing the tabs as commander of the 6th Army Group during WWII.

post-1761-0-68648900-1385046849.jpg

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Here's a recent photo of an NCO wearing the SSI and DUI of the U.S. Military Academy along with Infantry branch insignia and accoutrements (shoulder chord and branch discs). Notice he is wearing leadership tabs as well. Does the Military Academy have any tactical units or has wear of the tabs now expanded to staff personnel? Notice from his ribbons, he also has prior Marine Corps service.

post-1761-0-74332500-1410110295.jpg

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Here's a recent photo of an NCO wearing the SSI and DUI of the U.S. Military Academy along with Infantry branch insignia and accoutrements (shoulder chord and branch discs). Notice he is wearing leadership tabs as well. Does the Military Academy have any tactical units or has wear of the tabs now expanded to staff personnel? Notice from his ribbons, he also has prior Marine Corps service.

The 1st Battalion 1st Infantry was there since the 50s, don't know if it still is.

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This TAC officer for an Armor OCS class at Fort Knox circa 1966 appears to be wearing Armor/Cavalry yellow tabs to match the stripe on his helmet liner and bib. Would those be leadership tabs or something else?

post-1761-0-55183000-1410132168.jpg

post-1761-0-85493100-1410132180.jpg

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The 1st Battalion 1st Infantry was there since the 50s, don't know if it still is.

 

Would they wear the 1st Infantry or USMA DUI? It looks like there may a be a regimental number on his branch insignia but I can't make it out.

 

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Here's a Command Sergeant Major of the 2nd Infantry Division wearing the tabs in the 80s.

post-1761-0-65051500-1410149542.jpg

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