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Ka Bar question


TLeo
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For all the blade collectors....would it be very unusual or raise a red flag to find a USMC marked Ka Bar in a USN Mk2 sheath? I was offered one in excellent shape along with a couple of books about the code talkers (one written by a code talker). Sorry, but no pictures as I didn't have my phone when it was shown to me this morning. The asking price was $400 and I was tempted but have no real knowledge of knives.

 

edited....there was some paperwork that needs more looking into to be sure, but this is supposed to have belonged to the code talker who authored one of the books.

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I have a USMC KABAR that came in an MK2 sheath also - I paid $30 at a flea market for it - It seems to fit the KABAR good and I think it may have been issued that way to the Marine who owned it.

 

But $400???? - I am not a knife collector but that does seem on the high end

 

Bill

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During WW2 the Navy made a change to the sheath type they wanted with their MK2 (ie. Ka-Bar), and the MK1(5"blade) knives. These are the MK1 & MK2 plastic sheaths made by Beckwith. The Marine Corps never switched from the leather sheath during WW2. By the Vietnam time period it was very common to find the 1219C2 pattern knife in a Navy plastic sheath. IMHO, I wouldn't be surprised that at least some of those knives could have been marked U.S.M.C. from back to WW2 production.

You raise a good question, but I'm afraid we can get lost between questions of probability vs. possibility.

IMHO again, for that kind of money there are pieces that are worth the cost, bargains at that cost, and one's that are way over priced at that figure. Most of those variables have way more to do with the knife and little to do with the sheath that comes with it.

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The code talker story would raise a red flag for me.

I think I remember seeing that knife on eBay and it sure was not worth $400.

I would sure post some pictures before I laid down $400 if you are not sure of it.

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I suspect the asking price had much to do with the story associated with it and I think the knife and books were obtained on ebay. I was thinking that if the story were true that it might be worth that price but still had doubts and not knowing what the knife and sheath alone without the story would be worth was not going to chance it. Sounds like the knife and sheath would not be worth close to that price.. Thanks guys.

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Yes, stories are just that only stories. Provenance and chain of custody are other things and it's good not to get things confused when evaluating an item.

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manayunkman

Provenance is usually associated with rock solid proof.

 

Was there any proof?

 

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Provenance is usually associated with rock solid proof.

 

Was there any proof?

 

There was some, in the form of a list of the code talkers and letter from original seller stating it belonged to the named Marine. There was another piece of info on a paper that at the moment escapes me as to exactly what it was.

A nickname of his had been (for lack of a better term) stamped into the metal rim of the pommel. It was such a nice blade and sheath that I wondered if the knife and sheath might be worth anything approaching the asking price regardless of being sure of solid provenance with it being such a nice WW2 Ka Bar.

 

.....oh, if it makes any difference for value, it was marked Oleans on one side of the blade

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I just checked with a buddy who was with me and I had forgotten that the letter I mentioned earlier from the original seller said he obtained it from the Marine's family. (for whatever that's worth, since I don't know the person)

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manayunkman

If I bought that knife and wanted to sell it someday I wouldn't have the confidence to state it was from a Code Talker.

 

Document the nickname and you have a better chance, especially if it's an unusual nckname.

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SGT CHIP SAUNDERS

NO EXPERT . If the knife was indeed obtained from the Navaho Marines family I would be very surprised. These people truly

treasure thier history. Very little bona fide Code Talker memorabilia has been offered here in Arizona . The plastic scabbards were

more versatile than the leather scabbards, as the plastic ones were compatible with the rifle and pistol belts of that era having the hooks . Just my 2@

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I can't find it but I think the one I saw on eBay had "CHIEF" stamped on the pommel and the knife was a modern reproduction KA-BAR.

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Blacksmith

Just to add, nothing unusual about any combination of fighting knife and sheath, that was reportedly carried. Sure, there are as-issued expectations, but once it is in the field, anything is possible.

 

On the separate matter of it possibly belonging to a Code Talker, as others have said, I would be looking for some pretty convincing proof. If the extent of what you have is a nickname and some books accompanying it, that doesn’t rise to the level - for me anyway.

 

So it comes down to what you are comfortable with for you - acknowledging that if you ever go to sell it, someone else may be expecting more.

 

Good luck.

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OK, I found it on this Forum. 352360855160 It is a modern reproduction. I knew I remembered that knife.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/310934-wwii-code-talker-kabar-not-on-ebay/?hl=%2Btalker+%2Bknife

 

 

This auction is for a historically significant WWII fighting knife combat weapon issued to and owned by U.S. Marine Chester Nez, the last of the original group of Code Talkers. Plus, a book he authored titled: CODE TALKER, by Chester Nez - and another book titled: NAVAJO WEAPON, signed by another Code Talker, Joe Morris, (not the author). Plus, a 2014 news article explaining Chester Nez's life and military career. I just recently obtained this lot of items from a person at the Gun Collectors Club of America who had attended Nez's estate sale in 2014 where he purchased these items. In the index of the Code Talker book there are four references to this Native American Hero, Chester Nez, using this Kabar knife. This government issued fighting knife is marked on the pommel: CHIEF - marked on the tang: KABAR - OLEAN, N.Y. - USMC - and marked on the scabbard: U.S.N. - MK2 - NORD - 4723 - B.M.CO. - The knife has a tight stacked leather ring handle grip and a very sharp clip point Bowie encapsulated full tang carbon steel blade, still showing the majority of it gray Parkerized blade. This knife and scabbard are in excellent condition appearing just lightly used. The books are in very fine condition overall. Please zoom in on all pictures for details. The knife measures 11 7/8" with a 6 7/8" blade and in the sheath it weighs 14.5 oz. Total weight of all items is 3 lbs. 2 oz.

 

5-29: PLEASE BE ADVISED: An informed source has told me this knife is not the one Nez carried in WWII and this knife was actually made in the Vietnam era so my initial description is not 100% correct.

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picture

That is the one in question. I'm glad that I had decided last night to pass on it and this info leaves no doubt in my mind. The more that I thought about it last night...it just looked to "clean" to have been used but giving the benefit of the doubt, wondered if maybe he owned it at a later date as a memento. The person offering it to me is someone I've known for quite a while and trust so it looks like he got taken in the original deal. Thanks for all the helpful comments from everyone

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SGT CHIP SAUNDERS

As an aside, I served with some Native Americans . Choctaw and Pima mostly . They were all . Chief

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  • 8 months later...
The plastic scabbards were

more versatile than the leather scabbards, as the plastic ones were compatible with the rifle and pistol belts of that era having the hooks . Just my 2@

 

 

Close! They slipped over the belts too, the M8 had the hooks. :)

 

It's totally possible to have any combo there of, and be legit, as my gramps, US Navy, had a USMC Ka Bar in a USN NORD plastic sheath..

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