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Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron question

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Hey Guys,

 

I was looking over a WW2 Ike recently from a soldier of the 33rd Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron. It had a gold star added to his Victory ribbon ( unofficially of course ) to indicate he saw action, if I understand that correctly. It didn't have a CIB so am I correct in assuming these units didn't qualify?

 

Thanks!

James

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The CIB is a Combat Infantry award for any of the Infantry Occupation Specialties. I believe that the Cavalry Recon Squadron units in WWII were Armor, so no they would not qualify for the CIB. In Vietnam, Air Cavalry units were 11D MOS which is an Infantry Specialty, so they did qualifiy. The 11 series included 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D and 11H. There may be more, but that is all I can recall.


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I would agree.

 

I have a 113th Cav group.Combat wounded and no CIB.He had a certificate of merit which I recall is like a bronze star.He was a Half track diver.

 

Have a couple other Cav ikes as well and no CIB.

 

I would think if you were Armored Infantry the CIB would bee seen but never encountered one with a veteran who was in the Cav Recon


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The CIB is a Combat Infantry award for any of the Infantry Occupation Specialties. I believe that the Cavalry Recon Squadron units in WWII were Armor, so no they would not qualify for the CIB. In Vietnam, Air Cavalry units were 11D MOS which is an Infantry Specialty, so they did qualify. The 11 series included 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D and 11H. There may be more, but that is all I can recall.

Respectfully Beg to differ in this one point, true 11D's were in the 11 Series, so were 11E's, these two were not Infantry despite their being in the 11 Series, both of these were of the Armor Branch, 11D, Armor Reconnaissance Specialist, 11E Armor Crewman. As such 11D's do not think 11D's would get CIB's

 

In the late 70s, like in 1978, the Army finally separated these two into a new numbered MOS series, the 19 Series, 11D now 19D Cavalry Scout, 11E now 19E Armor Crewman.

 

On the Virtual Wall 11D KIA's are depicted with CIB's, not sure that's correct as 11D is a non infantry Armor MOS, it's possible the compilers of this made another error and added the CIB by virtue of the 11 there, assuming it was an Infantry Branch MOS which it wasn't.

 

In the Ground Cav Squadrons there were for sure Infantry MOS throughout, there being 11B's, 11C's and 11F's, these got CIB, but as far as we know there comrades that held 11D MOS' did not.

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There's a fly in the Ointment there with WWII Infantry Divisional Reconnaissance Troops and or Separate Reconnaissance Cavalry Squadrons, and Armored Divisional Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadrons, in that these units did contain Infantryman in their TOE, 745 Rifleman, whether these guys got CIB's I don''t know.

 

I had a PDF of their MOS TOE's but can't find it no more.

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Ron,

 

I tried half track diving once and I'll never do it again!


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Ron,

 

I tried half track diving once and I'll never do it again!

 

Like driving a sail boat made of lead :D


In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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There's a fly in the Ointment there with WWII Infantry Divisional Reconnaissance Troops and or Separate Reconnaissance Cavalry Squadrons, and Armored Divisional Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadrons, in that these units did contain Infantryman in their TOE, 745 Rifleman, whether these guys got CIB's I don''t know.

 

I had a PDF of their MOS TOE's but can't find it no more.

 

I'm reading a book by a man who served in a mortar platoon in the 91st Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron in WWII and he stated that they were not eligible for the CIB, even though they often were used as infantry.

 


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The 124th and 112th cavalry regiment blokes wore them as did the dismounted 1st Cavalry Division regiments. These units all operated as dismounted in combat.


Always looking for WW2 Cavalry,Pack Mule and Constabulary horse platoon stuff.

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Units in question were reclassified as (Special), Ie Infantry, in the 1st Cav Div it was in March 1949 that it was officially redesignated Infantry, it as we know retains the Cavalry designations, but now it's Squadrons and Troops are redesignated Battalions and Companies,this was done to put the 1st Cavalry Division which despite it's title was an Infantry Division in line with other the Infantry Divisions of the Army.

 

The companies also continue to use their old Cavalry Gudions despite the TOE and title redesignations as seen here in Korea in early October 1950 in Korea.

 

post-34986-0-08397700-1358486422.jpg

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post-63795-0-69882400-1579104164_thumb.jpg

 

Dad was with 99th Cavalry Reconnaissance Troop (Mechanized), 99th Infantry Division during WWII. No CIB for him as he was Cavalry branch, trained and training cadre at Cavalry Replacement Training Center, Ft. Riley, Kansas (attached photo). He is the little guy in the center without jacket, Cpl. Gettman.

 

Staff Sergeant MOS 761 platoon sergeant - after battlefield commission to 2d Lieutenant MOS 1620 platoon leader.


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Reply to Patches,,

My mos was 11d. In 1969 I was in vietnam with the Ist batt Mech 16th inf. And yes I got my CIB in my first month there.

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On 4/28/2020 at 8:36 AM, Tarpon12 said:

Reply to Patches,,

My mos was 11d. In 1969 I was in vietnam with the Ist batt Mech 16th inf. And yes I got my CIB in my first month there.

What company were you with?

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HHC Recon platoon !st Batt 16th INF Mech First Infantry Division.

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16 hours ago, Tarpon12 said:

HHC Recon platoon !st Batt 16th INF Mech First Infantry Division.

Thank You. it's an interesting study.

A lot of battalions apparently formed E Companies, E Companies were where the RECON Platoons were moved too, they and the 4.2 Mortar Platoons from HHC when they were first formed in around like 1968 late 68 into 1969, this may have only been in Airborne and Airmobile Battalions as their RECON were 11Bs, Seems though the 16th Infantry formed E Companies too by 1969 an Infantry Platoon Leader though he could of been the Company Commander don't know. HEREAnd a Infantry 11B E-4 HERE. these two were probably in the RECON Platoon. But  believe the Combat Support Companies were formed like in 1970 - 71 only in the Armored Divisions at Hood and West Germany. at first, then with Mechanized Infantry Divisions, it's curious thing in that when I was in the Cav, the 2/12 Cav in 80-81 we did indeed have a CSC, this is were the 19D Cavalry Scouts were, 11D Armored Reconnaissance Specialists were retitled along with 11E Tank Crewman in 1978 and now the 19D's wore the old Crossed Sabres, but later up in Alaska in 81-82 in the 1/9th Inf which was a Straight Leg Unit with one Airborne Company, C Company, Charlie Airborne, we had a E Company, this was were the battalion's RECON Platoon was, leading me believe that only Mech Inf had CSCs and Straight Leg, Light, and Airborne had still at these dates an E Co instesd of a CSC.

 

This brings up the question again as to awarding the CIB to individuals, mostly officers holding non 11 Series Infantry MOSs in a TO&E Infantry Battalion or Divisional Brigade's HHC. There are know cases of 11 Armor Series Officers who were given command of Infantry Companies, given command because a shortage of Infantry officers, they got the CIB. Still feel at this time though that an 11D in a Cavalry Squadron, say 1/4 Cav or in the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiments got the CIB. I seen several 11th ACR Vets in my time in in 1980-82 with CIBs my battalions in the 1st Cav Div and up in Alaska in the 172nd Inf Bde, but these E-6s and E-7 and or-E-8s were either 11B or 11C.

 

There so much conflicting stuff involved with this Non Infantry CIB awards, some getting some not, like take this GI, a Specialist 5th Class in C Company 1/16th Inf was an Ordnance Corps GI, he had to of been in the Company's HQ Platoon when he was KIA as he was a 63 Foxtrot Recovery Specialist, these guys run the Towing vehicles for wreaked and knocked out Tanks and APCs and stuff, yet he wasn't awarded a CIB, there was a good chance he might of gotten one right, he was after all serving in a TO&E Infantry Company.

 

The there was this one an 11E Tank Crewman in HHC 1/16 Inf KIA, Though would guess your RECON Platoon in a Infantry Mech or otherwise had M48 Tanks or M551 Sheridans, those were in the Divisional Cav Squadrons. Would of thought by 1969 the RECON would of moved in the newly formed E Company, wouldn't think there were two RECON latoons right, one stil HHC and one now in E Company.

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