Shoulder Sleeve Insignia on 1980s Battle Dress Uniform

[MrStiv]

Trying to help a friend out who's trying to reconstruct his BDU from his time in the Army in the mid-1980s. He served in the 4th Infantry Division, which he says at the time was assigned to 4th Transportation Command. He remembers wearing the 4th Infantry shoulder sleeve insignia on his left shoulder, but can't recall if he also wore a 4th Transportation Command patch somewhere else on the same uniform.

 

So, would someone wear a patch of the organization to which they are assigned and also wear a patch for the organization to which their unit is assigned on the old BDU? I think he wold just wear the 4th Infantry, but I want to make sure I give him the right advice.

 

Thanks as always!

[MattS]

No, 1 patch on the left shoulder for your currently assigned unit. If he was at Fort Carson, it was probably the 4th ID patch. The only other patch would be on the right shoulder if he served in combat.

 

It hurts me to read "the old BDU", it wasn't that long ago the Army was wearing it (2005). I still have mine hanging in the closet.

[MrStiv]

Thanks MattS. How does that work if your current organization has former wartime service--do you just wear your current organization SSI on the left shoulder?

[MattS]

Unless you actually served in that unit in combat, you cannot wear the patch on the right shoulder. In the 80s, guys walking around with combat patches were usually Vietnam vets. My first sergeant had a different one for every day of the week due to numerous tours in Vietnam.

 

Read more here: https://www.thebalancecareers.com/army-combat-patch-rules-when-and-how-to-wear-the-patch-3344579

[atb]

Remember, actual combat has no bearing on authorization to wear the so-called "combat patch" (Shoulder Sleeve Insignia-Former Wartime Service I think is correct term). Service in a designated area during a designated time period are the requirements.

[MattS]

That's true, just being assigned to a unit during wartime, even if you weren't anywhere near actual combat, is good enough. AR 670-1 covers this:

http://www.hcdmag.com/ar-670-1/army-insignia/army-ssi-fwts/

[MattS]

Remember, actual combat has no bearing on authorization to wear the so-called "combat patch" (Shoulder Sleeve Insignia-Former Wartime Service I think is correct term). Service in a designated area during a designated time period are the requirements.

 

And I think that is the correct term, which I never once heard used in the Army. It was, "Nice! 1st CAV combat patch" not, "I see you're wearing a 1st Cavalry Division Shoulder Sleeve Insignia-Former Wartime Service upon your right shoulder."

[patches]

Was he in Vietnam, the 4th Trans Cmd certainly was, this would mean he just didn't serve in the "Mid 80s". But, if not, then I don't know as by the 70s and 80s this unit was in West Germany, now redesignated as the 4th Transportation Brigade, and would not be as far as I know attached or assigned to the 4th Infantry Division (Forward) that was there in West Germany, but be a High Command Theater unit, probably under either U.S. Army Europe or 7th Army or maybe even under V or VII Corps.

 

Perhaps he was in the 4th Support and Transportation Battalion of the 4th Infantry Division?? but then this unit did not have a shoulder patch, they just wore the IVY Division patch

 

[Proud Kraut]

Was he in Vietnam, the 4th Trans Cmd certainly was, this would mean he just didn't serve in the "Mid 80s". But, if not, then I don't know as by the 70s and 80s this unit was in West Germany, now redesignated as the 4th Transportation Brigade, and would not be as far as I know attached or assigned to the 4th Infantry Division (Forward) that was there in West Germany, but be a High Command Theater unit, probably under either U.S. Army Europe or 7th Army or maybe even under V or VII Corps.

 

Perhaps he was in the 4th Support and Transportation Battalion of the 4th Infantry Division?? but then this unit did not have a shoulder patch, they just wore the IVY Division patch

 

 

I grew up in Hessen and trucks with this emblem or a big white "37" on the driver's cab spoiler were around everywhere. As far as I know at that time 4th TRANSCOM was a part of 37th Transportation Group. I remember reading or hearing somewhere that this was the largest Transportation unit in the world.

[patches]

Thanks for the update LARS, the 37th Trans Grp was then under USAEUR.

 

Here's their page on usarmygermany.com

 

https://www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Transportation/USAREUR_37thTransGp.htm

[MrStiv]

Thanks for all this information. He says he was in the Army 1983 - 1986 in the 4th Infantry Division, 4th Transportation Command, but as Proud Kraut pointed out this seem to jive. I'm going to advise him to get his DD-214 so we can see his service in black and white.

[Martinjmpr]

Thanks for all this information. He says he was in the Army 1983 - 1986 in the 4th Infantry Division, 4th Transportation Command, but as Proud Kraut pointed out this seem to jive. I'm going to advise him to get his DD-214 so we can see his service in black and white.

 

The 4th ID was not "under" 4th Trans Com. A transportation command (IIRC) is a brigade-level unit while a division is a division - higher than a brigade (a brigade is commanded by a Col, a division is commanded by a 2 star general.)

 

IIRC during the 80's when all of 4th ID was at Fort Carson, CO, they fell under III Corps out of Fort Hood, TX.

 

EDIT: I wonder if your friend was with the 4th Supply and Transport (S&T) BATTALION which was indeed a component of the 4th ID in the 1980s? That would make more sense than 4th transport command.

 

For some weird reason I can't post a link here (webmaster, what's up with not being able to cut and paste a link?) but according to a source I found the 4th S&T battalion was deactivated at Fort Carson in 1985, which is when the 4th ID was stationed at Carson in its entirety.

[Martinjmpr]

To answer your original question - a divisional support battalion would not normally wear any specific insignia other than the current unit shoulder sleeve insignia (SSI) on the LEFT sleeve. Sometimes support units might have a pocket hanger or some other unique identifier to promote pride and esprit-de-corps within the unit but these were unofficial and technically were uniform violations (things like "Recondo" badges, pocket patches or unauthorized headgear fall into this category.)

 

Throughout the 1980's the Army got much stricter about enforcing uniform regs which had gotten somewhat lax during the "hollow army" post-Vietnam period (when you would see things like color patches on pockets or strangely colored berets being 'authorized' by local commanders.)

[MrStiv]

Martinjmpr, his memory is obviously muddled. He just needs his DD-214 and we'll get him straightened out.