Kimo Posted May 27, 2017 Share #101 Posted May 27, 2017 Here is a photo of one of my favorite wings in my little collection. It is a full sized, 3 inch, Sterling silver, command pilot wing with exceptionally nice detailing all around. It has clutch back pins with sterling clutches on the nails. From the front it appears to have been made with one command pilot die but from the back you can see where the command pilot wreath and star were soldered onto the pilot wings. The style, patina, perfection of proportion, depth of die striking, etc. of the wreath and star are all identical to the pilot wing part so I feel pretty confident that these were made this way from the start, though it is always possible that could be a very early set of wings from late 1939 to early 1940 when the command pilot rating was first established and before the wing badge makers geared up to start producing one piece command pilot wings, or whether a proud pilot had his first set of pilots wings built upon by a talented jeweler as he progressed up through senior pilot and then command pilot. Either way I would be very nice. There is a bit of wear to the star in the form of a couple of dings. These wings were worn for a long time by their look. The question I have is who might the maker of these have been? The wings have a nice heft and overall have a slight curvature from wing tip to wing tip to fit closely on the chest of the tunic. They have a cleanly struck STERLING marking indented into the silver, but there is no maker's marking on them. They are far too detailed and finely made to have been made by just an ordinary mass maker who was cranking out tens of thousands of badges at a time. They appear to be the sort of wing that a Blackington, Tiffany or Luxenberg similar quality jeweler would have made so I am mystified by the lack of a maker's mark. My second question is seeking everyone's opinion as to whether these were made all at the same time, or whether they could be late 1939 to early 1940 wings just after the command pilot rating was created and were put together before the makers were geared up to make one-piece command pilot wings, or whether they were originally a pilot's basic wing badge that the pilot had added to over the years as he worked his way up to command pilot? Or?? The clutch back attachment style does not really limit the age so that is of little help. Whoever wore these was a very experienced and proud pilot. The minimum requirement for command pilot wings was either 15 years of service as a pilot with 3000 hours flying as pilot in command, or 20 years of service as a pilot with 2000 hours flying as pilot in command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted May 27, 2017 Share #102 Posted May 27, 2017 Two photos of the back of this Command Pilot Wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mghcal Posted May 27, 2017 Share #103 Posted May 27, 2017 That's a 1920s-30s Willam Link pattern pilot wing that's been converted to command pilot. I'd suspect that the pinback was replaced with clutches as well. Can you take a photo without the clutches? I''ve seen several documented Command Pilot wings that were converted from prewar wings by pilots from the 1930s. I really like how they free floated the wreath above the shield like the later Meyer command pilot wings. It's unique and there's a tiny chance it may be possible to find the owner if you keep your eyes open for photos of higher ranking ww2 officers. Fantastic wing and thank you for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mghcal Posted May 27, 2017 Share #104 Posted May 27, 2017 Here is a previous thread that goes into great detail on these wings. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/206492-2-sides-of-2-different-coins-wings/?hl=%2Bwilliam+%2Blink&do=findComment&comment=1621134 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted May 28, 2017 Share #105 Posted May 28, 2017 Here are photos of the posts without their sterling clutches. I can see how they were likely a conversion from a bar pin to make the wings fit more tightly and cleanly against the tunic. These must have belonged to a high ranking pilot officer. And many thanks for spotting that the original wing that was converted is a 1920s to 1930s William Link pattern wing. That supports the likelihood that the original wing was worn by a pilot from that era and then at the end of 1939 to beginning of 1940 when the command pilot rating was established he had a jeweler somewhere do the conversion allowing him to keep wearing his own fancy wings with their sentimental memories in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted May 28, 2017 Share #106 Posted May 28, 2017 And many thanks for the link to that discussion on the Link pattern wings. Yes, this is definitely what I have except for the conversion of mine to Command Pilot which I assume was done when the new Command Pilot design was approved and promulgated. I would guess these would likely have belonged to someone like a colonel or possibly a general given the flying time and flying years required for the Command Pilot designation. Also the base wing being 1920s makes sense because of the 15 year minimum requirement for Command Pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted March 29, 2019 Share #107 Posted March 29, 2019 These came to me the other day. they are kind of interesting, in that they were 3 of them. One all silver colored, one with a silver shield/gold wings, and one with a gold shield and silver wings. I suspect that they were examples of the different types of finishes you could get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted March 29, 2019 Share #108 Posted March 29, 2019 Here are all three lined up. The bottom wing is an early GEMSCO, to show that these are similar, but not exact to the Link wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted March 29, 2019 Share #109 Posted March 29, 2019 Here are a few more. All have the same type of hardware and catch (a "C" sytle catch) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted March 29, 2019 Share #110 Posted March 29, 2019 So.... why do I think these are from a Wm Link salesman board... Well these is this thread http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/74244-help-with-gold-observer-wing/?hl=%2Blink+%2Bsalesman+%2Bsample+%2Bboard&do=findComment&comment=540531 and here is a picture of the Wm Link salesman board. A number of these wings on the board show up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted March 29, 2019 Share #111 Posted March 29, 2019 But wait.. There is more! The top wing is a Wm Link pilot badge I have had for years. The bottom wing is PROBABLY and AMCRAFT made wing using Wm Link dies. The middle two badges.... One is a very nice aeronaut badge and a gold/gilt observer wing. These probably all date to the 20's/30's and were like made in different finishes to demonstrate the quality of the insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted March 29, 2019 Share #112 Posted March 29, 2019 Awesome...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted March 29, 2019 Share #113 Posted March 29, 2019 Sometimes, on here… People post wings that make me stare and go WOW!!!!! This is one of those moments! Wow Patrick!!!! Love that Navy Wing!!!! Looks like mine!!! Only Older!!!!! Wow!!! The whole board too! I've been noticing that the older Amcrafts have no little circle in the middle of the snow burst. Im guessing thats a good way to spot an older Amcraft? Wow!!! Did I say Wow? Yes well Wow again!!! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted March 29, 2019 Share #114 Posted March 29, 2019 Here are some closeups of the observer and USN aviator wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff41st Posted March 30, 2019 Share #115 Posted March 30, 2019 Very nice. Great acquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nack Posted March 30, 2019 Share #116 Posted March 30, 2019 Wow. These are spectacular! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Posted March 30, 2019 Share #117 Posted March 30, 2019 nice Pat---- the 2 top badges, gold wings and other gold shield--- can it specify instructor???? just a different variation??? still nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted March 30, 2019 Share #118 Posted March 30, 2019 Now you're just rubbing it in :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy56 Posted March 30, 2019 Share #119 Posted March 30, 2019 Speechless but green with envy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathbonemuseum.com Posted March 30, 2019 Share #120 Posted March 30, 2019 Nicccce add, Dr P. Birthday present? I agree with you that a logical explanation for the two-tone wings was to demonstrate choices as there is no corresponding insignia regulation for those. Its hard to nail down slick wing patterns but you believe those are Link because they came with the rest? The observer and naval aviator are much more definitive with their unique design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted March 30, 2019 Share #121 Posted March 30, 2019 Here is my link pattern navy that Im posting because its just like Patricks and Its the most beautiful Navy wing I have. I love the detail in the link wings!!! Its the only one I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted March 30, 2019 Share #122 Posted March 30, 2019 back I can only hope someday to fnd a nice air corps Link Pilot example like Patricks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted March 30, 2019 Share #123 Posted March 30, 2019 Nicccce add, Dr P. Birthday present? I agree with you that a logical explanation for the two-tone wings was to demonstrate choices as there is no corresponding insignia regulation for those. Its hard to nail down slick wing patterns but you believe those are Link because they came with the rest? The observer and naval aviator are much more definitive with their unique design. You make a good point Tod, I suspect that they were all made at the same time and came off the same board (none of them are hallmarked and all of them have the same type of findings and "C" catch. Even the little WWI type sweetheart wings. In fact, these all came from an old Army/Navy Uniform store. I am still trying to find out the specifics of that company. My sense is that these items are all from the same time and place. As for if they are for "phantom" ratings as Costa asked... I think not. I have seen vintage catalogs from companies like Blackinton, and they offered a large number of wings in all sorts of designs and finishes. You could order what ever you wanted without much effort. So, if someone felt that they wanted a gilt observer wing... they could easily get it, but in this case, I suspect that these are just samples to show people what was available for purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted March 30, 2019 Share #124 Posted March 30, 2019 Here is my link pattern navy that Im posting because its just like Patricks and Its the most beautiful Navy wing I have. I love the detail in the link wings!!! Its the only one I have. It is a nice pattern, that is for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kropotkin Posted March 30, 2019 Share #125 Posted March 30, 2019 Very interesting. What period would you say they’re from? I have an example of this pattern and haven’t yet pinned them down, age-wise: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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