TXMarine81 Posted March 14, 2019 Share #1 Posted March 14, 2019 Hello everyone. I was wondering if the community would be able to help me identify the insignia on this WWI USMC helmet? I recently acquired this M1917 US Marine Corps helmet, partly because it was unlike any I have seen before. The period WWI EGA emblem is mounted atop a hand-painted three-pointed red shield. This is unlike any Marine Corps insignia I have seen painted on WWI-era USMC helmets. The closest period insignia I could find was the three-pointed red shield of the US Army Second Division’s First Field Signal Battalion. The issues are that this was an Army battalion and not a Marine battalion, and its insignia had the star and Indian head logo within it. Other details of the helmet are a post-factory dark green paint scheme (that has crazed), and a heat stamped ZC 182 – which makes it American made, at earliest Fall 1917 as best I can tell. I would appreciate any help. Thank you! -Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted March 14, 2019 Share #2 Posted March 14, 2019 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/247354-15th-seperate-battlion-wwi-usmc-helmet/?hl=%2B13th+%2Bseparate&do=findComment&comment=1975965 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
644td Posted March 14, 2019 Share #3 Posted March 14, 2019 The marines were with the 2nd and did a mighty fine job. I know of a few people here that will tell you everything about the helmet. The marines 2nd Division is their domain. Marty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
644td Posted March 14, 2019 Share #4 Posted March 14, 2019 Well Dirk Sid it all with that link. Marty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMarine81 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share #5 Posted March 15, 2019 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/247354-15th-seperate-battlion-wwi-usmc-helmet/?hl=%2B13th+%2Bseparate&do=findComment&comment=1975965 Thanks Eric for the really helpful and informative link - I appreciate it! As a Marine, I'm always excited when I get to connect with the Corps' earlier history. I'm unfamiliar with the 15th Separate Battalion, and have not been able to find anything on them. Were they on occupation duty? Would you have a link or source that has more information about them and their activities? I appreciate it. -Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMarine81 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share #6 Posted March 15, 2019 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/247354-15th-seperate-battlion-wwi-usmc-helmet/?hl=%2B13th+%2Bseparate&do=findComment&comment=1975965 I forgot to add, the chinstrap of the helmet has "R L Kershner" scratched into it. Is there a roll or muster sheet for the 15th that this name could be checked with? Thank you. -Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznation Posted March 15, 2019 Share #7 Posted March 15, 2019 United States Muster Rolls of the Marine Corps, 1798-1937 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznation Posted March 15, 2019 Share #8 Posted March 15, 2019 > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznation Posted March 15, 2019 Share #9 Posted March 15, 2019 > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted March 15, 2019 Share #10 Posted March 15, 2019 Nice helmet, often overlooked by Marine helmet collectors. I think it deserves a spot right next to the star Indianhead painted shells. Order Eric Queens fine article on the 15th seperation battalion in the military advisor magazine, I think you can still buy it as a back issue. It will tell you everything you want to know about this interesting unit. I was lucky eneough to grab a tunic to this unit (with Erics help) a few years ago. For some reason, the tunics are much more rare than the helmets in todays market. I know of only two in collectors hands. Congrats on a fine helmet. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMarine81 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share #11 Posted March 15, 2019 United States Muster Rolls of the Marine Corps, 1798-1937 Wow!! Thank you so very much! I appreciate it! -Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMarine81 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share #12 Posted March 15, 2019 Nice helmet, often overlooked by Marine helmet collectors. I think it deserves a spot right next to the star Indianhead painted shells. Order Eric Queens fine article on the 15th seperation battalion in the military advisor magazine, I think you can still buy it as a back issue. It will tell you everything you want to know about this interesting unit. I was lucky eneough to grab a tunic to this unit (with Erics help) a few years ago. For some reason, the tunics are much more rare than the helmets in todays market. I know of only two in collectors hands. Congrats on a fine helmet. Kevin Thanks for the info Kevin. I'll look to see if I can get that back order issue. In reading up on the forum linked provided about the unit and their helmets, this one appears to be a bit different. Although I can clearly see the lines where the shield was drawn on and painted, there was not any of the paint texture removed before hand. This may have to do with the helmet I have not having much texture at all, and the OEM paint scheme being painted over with a darker green paint - which appears slightly glossy, not sure if that was original or an effect of aging. I was wondering if you had seen a helmet like this before? Thanks! -Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Queen Posted March 16, 2019 Share #13 Posted March 16, 2019 I think this one has a similar surface to yours. They seem to have been sanded down and shellacked. Perhaps for a parade or something(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Queen Posted March 16, 2019 Share #14 Posted March 16, 2019 Thanks Kevin for the kind works regarding the article. I appreciate it. Here is the cover for reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMarine81 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share #15 Posted March 19, 2019 I think this one has a similar surface to yours. They seem to have been sanded down and shellacked. Perhaps for a parade or something(?) Yes, that one looks much more similar to the one I have. Is that from your collection? Mine definitely has a more gloss sheen over the entire shell. The texturing was either removed, or never applied, and a non-OEM dark green paint was applied - much like the one you posted. I'm glad to know that mine isn't a one-off. I just ordered the back issue of the Military Advisor magazine with your article today. I look forward to reading it and learning more about the USMC 15th Separate Bn! Thanks for all the wonderful information and help, I appreciate it! -Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted March 19, 2019 Share #16 Posted March 19, 2019 Original helmets were sometimes shellacked, I think possibly VFW organizations would do this or collectors of vets with the assumption they were preserving the finish. A lot of original unmessed with helmets of the 15th seperation battalion have pencil lines visible where the shield was first drawn and then painted on, not always covering the pencil. I think this is a sign of originality. I like your helmet a lot and would have no worries at all about it. Fine example. Glad you have the article on order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted March 20, 2019 Share #17 Posted March 20, 2019 Preston, Great helmet. I scored one of these of a fellow USMF Collector years ago and display it with Eric Article. If you don't mind sharing, can you fill us in on where / how you found this helmet? Thanks Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMarine81 Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share #18 Posted March 30, 2019 Preston, Great helmet. I scored one of these of a fellow USMF Collector years ago and display it with Eric Article. If you don't mind sharing, can you fill us in on where / how you found this helmet? Thanks Troy I wasn't sure what it was when I first saw it, but could tell it was original and USMC - so I went ahead and bid on it. I found and purchased it at an auction in Ohio. I was very happy to find out not only what it was, the unit and history, but who owned it! I've got Eric's article to go along with it now. My next list item is an Indian Head/EGA helmet from the 4th Marine Brigade of WWI. I've come close a couple of times to getting one, but couldn't pull the trigger on the price. In due time I suppose. Thanks Troy. Semper Fi -Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted April 7, 2019 Share #19 Posted April 7, 2019 I wasn't sure what it was when I first saw it, but could tell it was original and USMC - so I went ahead and bid on it. I found and purchased it at an auction in Ohio. I was very happy to find out not only what it was, the unit and history, but who owned it! I've got Eric's article to go along with it now. My next list item is an Indian Head/EGA helmet from the 4th Marine Brigade of WWI. I've come close a couple of times to getting one, but couldn't pull the trigger on the price. In due time I suppose. Thanks Troy. Semper Fi -Preston Nice job and find for sure! Good luck on your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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