"chocolate chip" coat

[Philip]

i bought this shirt on ebay. was it common to use the reversed flag on 6 color desert shirts? all i've ever seen had the normal flag sewn on (if there was a flag)

tapes seem to be original to the shirt

 

looks like there was the ssi of the 10th mountain div

 

the flag. i think there was also a round combat patch.

[Bluehawk]

If I'm not mistaken such flags were sewn on in that manner to suggest the flag being carried into battle, as if the viewer were seeing it from that vantage point.

[doyler]

Pretty standard flag on Desert Storm Uniforms.I have a stack of unissued flags from a local gulf war vet.Always get an argument from guys at shows they "arent right".The flag gives the impression of moving forward,hence the appearance of flying from front to back.

 

RON

[hawkdriver]

Someone correct me, but I didn't think that the right sleeve flag came into play until after DS. I think it was during Bosnia that it became a permanent issue. We still had troops in the gulf, so they began wearing them on the six colors then. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I have gone through several DS pictures and haven't seen any yet.

[Mr-X]

IIRC reversed flags were also worn in Op Desert Fox in 1996.

 

The tan and black tapes and flag suggest post Desert Storm use.

[ADMIN]

Interesting topic. I've always wondered when those came into wear, so I look forward to seeing how this thread develops.

 

Dumb question, but does anyone know when these chocolate chip patterns came out?

[hawkdriver]

I know that an ALARAC message in 2004 is when it was mandated that every soldier will wear the flag. We had about a month after deployment that everyone wanted us to remove our flags because they weren't authorized in the U.S. The problem was that the material on the back would literally glue itself to the uniform and if removed, left a nasty mess.

[AndrewA74]

I know they had chocolate chip in Egypt 82. My friend was there, and he said they wore it. It was new then. The flag came post desert storm, and the tapes look theatre made.

Andrew

[Philip]

yes, i saw some pics from soldiers wearing 6 color desert bdus during the bright star exercises...

 

Dumb question, but does anyone know when these chocolate chip patterns came out?

 

i think in the late 1970s. there's choc chip stuff in rdf cut and a m1 steel helmet cover.

and what about somalia? i know the 10th mountain div was there...

 

thanks guys for your answers!

[bravo_2_zero]

Choc chip was made around 1972, there are examples of it on this forum and i own a 1977 dated SF jacket in the desert print.

 

I have a feeling this jacket on here is a little later than 1991 period, because all the pictures i've seen of that time period have green name tapes and insignia. The Only ones i've seen with desert were high ranking officers.

[bravo_2_zero]

1977 Special Forces

 

1990 experimental

[Philip]

wow, that's a nice jacket! i missed once an auction on ebay...

I have a feeling this jacket on here is a little later than 1991 period

the jacket itself has a contract no. from 83 made by selma apparel.

it has the reinforcements on elbows. on the right there's one from 1990 without reinforcements

 

comparison between the 83 dated (left) and 90 dated (right). the "stones" appear to be bigger on the right one.

 

rip-stop version

[Philip]

sorry. double post. problems with my internet connection...

[Kration]

Someone correct me, but I didn't think that the right sleeve flag came into play until after DS. I think it was during Bosnia that it became a permanent issue. We still had troops in the gulf, so they began wearing them on the six colors then. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I have gone through several DS pictures and haven't seen any yet.

 

 

Here is a pic of Dco-2/18 inf in Mar 91...

fresh new uniforms to go home in because the two sets we had been wearing for 8 months were stained black from wearing MOPP suits and were falling apart. We all got the flags and I remember there was an issue brought up that the flag patches we got were actually facing the wrong way.. We wore them anyway because it's all we could get in country. They should actually face backwards as if flying as you are moving forward.

[Philip]

these are the flags i was talking about. the non-reversed ones.

[hawkdriver]

The non-reversed ones are Air Force flags as they wear them on their left sleeves.

 

Kration, did you or anyone you see during the war wear the right sleeve flag?

[Kration]

Looking back through unit photo's I see a mix, some flags worn and some not.. of the flags present they are ALL the wrong ones and are not backwards as they should be according to regs. This was across the board in 197th Inf/24th ID and was due to supply problems... They issued what they could get but not everyone got patches.. just not enough to go around and no where to sew them on in the deep desert. No tent cities or rec areas then.

The also issued some other interesting items...

big one gallon western type round felt canteens.. because they couldn't get enough 2qt G.I. canteens for everyone through the system.

They also issued new panama sole jungle boots which were terrible in the desert because of sand entering the screened vents.. sand chews your feet up and destroys socks on a daily basis. We tried everything in an attempt to close those vents.. glue, melted 550 cord etc... Desert boots? We only got them with our new issue to come home in.. again because our original boots were falling apart.

Kration

[USMCRECON]

If I'm not mistaken such flags were sewn on in that manner to suggest the flag being carried into battle, as if the viewer were seeing it from that vantage point.

During Desert Shield/Storm, I believe the regulation stated that, no matter which sleeve the flag was on, the field had to face the front.

 

I personally got a ration from J-Squared (COL Jesse Johnson) after the parachute shop sewed the Velcro for my desert camo flag on the wrong sleeve. I wore it that way on the right shoulder anyway (as you can see in the rather poor photo below) because I no longer had access to the parachute shop when I was in the field.

 

[1stDivVet]

I don't have mine available to photo, but we had noth types. I was with HHC, 1st Div as part of the 101st MI Bn. We didn't get our 6 color bdu's until after we were there. I had my BOS/nameplates made there in tan and brown. I have a set from a friend in tan and black. Our qualification badges were OD as well as sew on rank. The desert stuff came out while we were there IRRC, but as stated, only the high ranking guys had it. A few had stuff made. My 1st flag was sent from home and was the "reatreating" flag. I got a couple others befpre leaving. All my flags on my stuff for Somolia was forward facing into battle..Still had both desert and OD BOS/nameplates..We didn't have to remove them, but we didn't wear our desert bdu's after we got back either.. Hope that helps..

 

Fins.

[USMCRECON]

At SOCCENT we could not get American flag patches when we arrived in early Aug 1990. In fact, by late September, they still weren't available; even by the end of combat ops, not everyone was wearing a flag on their DCUs. I ended up ordering a couple desert camo anf full color flage from Brigade Quartermaster or the Cavalry Store (don't remember which one).

 

One of the full color flag patches has a reflective border that the gunship IR sensors could see easly. By the way, my first pair of 6-color DCUs also came from one of these vendors. I ordered them in late August since the DCUs had not become available at SOCCENT yet.

 

We were supposed to wear the flag on the right shoulder. Brigade (or Cavalry) had both left- and right-handed versions of the desert camo flag available but they sent me the wrong handed flag. The parachute shop, acting on the SOCCENT regulations, put the Velcro on the right sleeve which put the flag field backwards. At that point, I had to make do and use what I had; as I said previously, I didn't lose any sleep over it and just wore it that way.