3/506th PIR Helmet

[Brian Keith]

This helmet has been in a collection since the 80s, collector aquired it from the vet. The collectors father and the vet were from the same town and were friends, both were airborne vets. The helmet is an standard M1, fixed bail, front seam, heat stamp 333C. It has seen very little wear. We have a vet ID, but just wanted to post the painted steel pot first. It is not and will not be for sale. Ill post several photos in successive posts.

What do you think? Thanks for looking.

BKW

If someone knows of an online roster of the WW II 3/506 please let me know.

 

right side

 

left side

[Brian Keith]

Right side close up.

[Brian Keith]

Left side spade close up.

 

Left side buckle.

[Brian Keith]

Sorry, I'm getting my left and right side mixed up. This is the wearer's left side. Previous post was the wearer's right side.

 

Wearer's left closer up.

[Brian Keith]

 

Thanks for looking, let me know if you want any other photos.

BKW

[Pegasus6]

Well for me it re-enforces that ABN units had access to plenty Fix bail helmets that could be utilized as replacements or when M2s were not available. Asides from being in photos. Looks good to me, hardly worn.. I wont get into the rabbit hole game of different uses for it. Wish it could talk. Thank you for sharing!

 

VR

Peg6

[Pegasus6]

I also find it very interesting the J hook has been moved to the wing of the chinstrap. Looks like an early shorty. In its current state would it clip both under chin without to much slack and around back? May be a reason for that. Cant see where the adjustment on the female part of the chinstrap is at or I should say rested for years, should be visible on the strap where it was adjusted and left at for years.

[Brian Keith]

Thanks for your reply. It lacks about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch to be able to fasten around the back. There is some evidence of the buckle being about 2/3's of the way out from the end of the strap for some time. When I got it in my hands this AM, it was adjusted all the way to the end of the strap. I've found the vet's name in some internet searches a few places in G Company, 506th. He was a "D-Day" vet, but I can't see this helmet being worn much, so not likely "combat worn", at least not much. When did the 101 adopt their helmet tactical markings? Were they first adopted/painted in England? I saw a clip of some 3rd Batt, 506th guys patrolling through Berchtesgaden, and the tactical markings are quite evident on several helmets, so they seemed to have kept up the marking through the war.

BKW

[No Quarter]

That's amazing! Aren't 506th helmets almost non-existent?

[Brian Keith]

Thanks for your comments USMM. When I first saw it, in my mind I said, "NO WAY IS THIS REAL". Then I did a bit of research on the name, (I don't own it and don't have permission to post the name, so I won't at this time)I found it did fit for 3/506th. I also have known the owner/collector for probably 15 years or so and he isn't one to embellish an artifact with a story.

BKW

[No Quarter]

Thanks for your comments USMM. When I first saw it, in my mind I said, "NO WAY IS THIS REAL". Then I did a bit of research on the name, (I don't own it and don't have permission to post the name, so I won't at this time)I found it did fit for 3/506th. I also have known the owner/collector for probably 15 years or so and he isn't one to embellish an artifact with a story.

BKW

Awesome! You're very fortunate to see it in person!

[USMC-RECON0321]

I hate to be the guy,,, but without the back story, chain of custody claimed etc... and by just looking at these pictures, I've never seen the tic marks that big and the insignia itself looks like it has an aging wash applied over it. It doesn't look natural at all. Not screaming it's a fake, just giving my honest opinion from what I'm seeing in these pictures. Maybe in hand it looks completely different?

 

Troy

[Brian Keith]

Thanks very much for your comments Troy. I want honest opinions. I did note the "chain of custody", we were told, veteran to collector I've known for 15 or so years. Vet and Collectors father from the same small town, both airborne vets, and friends. Acquired by the collector in the 1980's. What we don't know is when the vet acquired this helmet and when/where it was painted. Is it a "tribute" souvenir done by an "Easy Green" type painter in the '80's'? Was it done post-war in Germany? Was it done to replace his lost helmet after "D-Day"?, Market Garden? Bastogne? Not sure we can tell now.

Thanks!

Please keep the comments coming. I will likely bring this to the SOS so people can see it first hand.

BKW

[Brian Keith]

Awesome! You're very fortunate to see it in person!

Thanks for your comments USMM! Yes, I do feel fortunate in several ways, I have known WW I veterans, lots of WW II veterans, a few "D-Day" vets, see here: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/317888-fn-m-1910-w-capture-tag/ Once I even met the mother of a sailor who was killed at Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941! I met Andy Rooney once. Ive met WACS, WAVEs, BAMs and a couple of WASPs. I also knew a woman who lost two sons in Vietnam. I met Paul Tibbits and several of the 509th guys. I know and have met countless VN Veteran's to include Adrian Cronauer. Ive met lots WWII, Korean War, VN war and War on Terror CMH awardees. Im not special; Ive just done lots of events associated with military history ever since I was in High School. I spent 31 years in the Indiana National Guard. I lost two friends in Afghanistan, one to a mine; one was targeted by a sniper who shot him in the armpit when he raised his arm to enter a vehicle. When I deployed to Afghanistan for a year, it was a good deployment, we didnt lose any of our team, didnt get shot at much and only got blown up once that matters much. (my ears still ring since June 1, 2012). Many more have done more and lost more than I.

BKW

[No Quarter]

Thank you for your service Brian, your brother's sacrifices will not be forgotten. Collecting is a humbling experience when holding the items in your hands. I think about the veterans I have met too. One of the reasons I prefer to collect worn condition items instead of mint. Best of luck on the authentication and research of the helmet!

 

Jacob Anderson

[Bugme]

Like Troy, I do not want to be the wet blanket but, my first response to this was that it indeed looks like a faux aging/patina wash has been used on this. The huge tac mark is a concern but, things do happen in the field that don't always make sense. Straps and bartack look newer. The chain of custody helps but, is it documented(photo's, letter from vet, letter from collector you got it from, etc.) or is it just a verbal history from the collectors recollection?

[Blacksmith]

Hi Brian - I agree with Troy on the spade paint. I think the aging looks odd. The straps and hardware also look remarkably fresh, based on the shell condition. I am surprised to hear that its been in a collection since the 80s, as those card suit marks showed up in droves after Saving Private Ryan. Not to say that fakes werent being done before that - quite the contrary. Again, I’ll concede that photos maybe dont do it justice. That said, if I was making a hypothetical buying decision based on them, I would pass.

 

I too have been blessed to know many WWII veterans in my life, and interviewed scores of them. I knew a handful of PIR guys, and one thing they have been unanimous on: None ever saw painted makings on helmets. One SGT in the 508 went so far as to say he forbade it, based on the amount of sniper activity they experienced. Ironically, a German sniper would send him home during The Bulge.

 

I am not implying that these markings never existed, but certainly not as prolific as currently-available examples would have us think.

 

Thank you for your service.

[Brian Keith]

Thanks everyone for your honest comments, that is what I want. I too think the yellowing on the paint looks odd, I also noted the bar tacking is not as consistent as some I've seen. As I noted, it really hasn't been worn much, the liner is in pretty nice shape also. I'll try to find the video of the 3/506 guys going through Berchtesgaden, several painted helmets are shown, one guy is even just wearing the helmet liner. When I get permission I'll post what I have found about the vet. We do need to get more information from the collector who first acquired it.

Thanks,

BKW

[kammo-man]

Brian

Sad to hear this as I was rooting for the helmet to be good for you

Owen

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[USMC-RECON0321]

Brian, First thanks for your service (we may have crossed paths over the years).

 

Anyway, for example here are two "Tribute" helmets made for my Grandfather over the years. He loved to display them in his office and sadly near the end when his mind was going he probably would've agreed it was his from his actual service days if asked. I have these now, and as you can see one is an obvious Tribute helmet, but the other was painted up to be just as his would've looked when he jumped on D-day (Which this one was done in the early 90's). But any in hand inspection or detailed picture you know it's a reproduction, not to mention I had him sign the liner also.

 

Troy

 

 

 

 

 

[USMC-RECON0321]

Here is the other one. We had this made for him for Christmas one year. He was battlefield commissioned to a 2nd Lt. and discharged as a 1st Lt. But he always said his favorite rank was when he was 1st Sgt. So we had that rank painted on his helmet. We also displayed this one at his memorial service.

 

Troy

 

 

 

 

[Ronnie]

Awesome helmet Troy and God Bless your Grand Pop. I bet he had some stories to tell.

Ronnie

[USMC-RECON0321]

Awesome helmet Troy and God Bless your Grand Pop. I bet he had some stories to tell.

Ronnie

 

Thanks Ronnie,

 

Yes I miss our talks over the years for sure!

 

Really what I wanted to convey by showing the above pictures was that over the years meeting many vets that were active with the public (including my Grandpa) about their service, they were often given souvenirs or tribute reproduction items like jump jackets, helmets, etc to display or wear at events, even back in the 80's and sometimes in their later years they believed them to be their original items or their families did after their passing and not knowing better.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

 

Troy

[stealthytyler]

Interesting point. I met a wwii D-day vet who then sent me a photo of his D-Day used helmet. It was clearly a 1980s manufactured rear seam swivel bail with modern chinstraps and had an obvious reproduction paint job. Even the vet had forgot that it was made for him years ago while attending the reunions.

[Bill47]

I bet that 75 or more years ago, when these guys were young, the very last thing they were thinking of was what would become of their helmets. They likely weren't too concerned with what happened to the rest of their equipment, either. So if some vet tells us that a rear seam, swivel bail repro was his actual helmet, I know we'll just thank him for his service and wish there were a million more exactly like him.

Bill