Vietnam War USAF Pararescue uniforms or not?

[Tonomachi]

Does anyone have a roster of USAF Pararescue men who served during the South Vietnamese War? I purchased these two uniforms from two different eBay vendors out of Texas on the chance they were worn by a high ranking officer with a pararescue unit in Vietnam. It would appear that both eBay dealers were at the same estate sale or garage sale in Texas where these uniforms originated from. This first uniform is one of those second series OG-107 fatigues with what looks like in country made insignia. It had those clipped corner pockets and is dated 1964.

 

 

[Tonomachi]

Photo

 

 

[Tonomachi]

Close up of insignia

 

 

[Tonomachi]

I picked up this jungle jacket from a different eBay vendor. It seems to also have in country insignia.

 

 

[Tonomachi]

Close up of insignia. The uniform is dated 1969. There are a bunch of individuals who served in the military with the last name of Joyce. I finally located the correct Joyce with help from one of the eBay vendors. Upon reading his obituary I am no longer confidant that these uniforms were worn by a member of the USAF Pararescue.

[Tonomachi]

This the obituary and a photograph of Lt. Colonel Robert John Joyce:

 

Robert John Joyce

October 3, 1925 - December 8, 2017
Lieutenant Colonel Robert John Joyce went into the arms of the Lord on Friday, December 8, 2017 at the age of 92. He was born on October 3, 1925 in Northboro, Massachusetts and joined the Army after high school. His military career spanned 35 years and included service in the Army, Army Air Corps and the Air Force. Robert married Felice Cyr in 1955 in Paris, France and was happily married for 61 years. He was preceded in death by his parents, Delia and Christopher Joyce; his wife Felice Joyce and siblings, William, Dorothy, Shirley and Christopher. He is survived by his daughter, Christine Dobbins and her husband Mike; his sisters Beverly Greim and Mary Broderick; two grandsons, Joshua and Michael Dobbins; and ten nieces and nephews. The Rosary will be recited at 7:00 p.m. on Thursday, December 21, 2017, at Porter Loring North. Mass will be held Friday, December 22, 2017 at 8:30 a.m. at St. Marks the Evangelist Catholic Church, 1602 Thousand Oaks with burial immediately following at Fort Sam Houston National Cemetery. In lieu of flowers, memorial contributions may be made to the following: Wounded Warrior Project, 12672 Silicon Drive, Suite 105, San Antonio, Texas 72849 or American Parkinson Disease Association, 8300 Floyd Curl Drive #7883, San Antonio, Texas 78229. You are invited to sign the Guestbook at www.porterloring.com

 

 

 

 

[P-40Warhawk]

There is a rare book (out of print and very hard to fine) on PJ's in Vietnam; you might try cross referencing the name just to be sure. Would be neat if he had been one; my grandfather flew missions out of Phu Cat with Det. 13 38th ARRS. As they say 'That others may live'.

[Tonomachi]

I found that Lt. Col. Joyce enlisted in the Army on September 11, 1943 as a private in the Army Air Corps. I believe this is where the aircrew wings on these uniforms came from due to his prior service in the Army during WW2. Lt. Col. Joyce stayed in the service after the war and became part of the Air Force when the Army Air Corps was dissolved in the late 1940s. I do not know when he qualified as a paratrooper as it could have been in the Army or Air Force. So this could explain the combination Air Crew wings above the paratrooper wings that you find on pararescue uniforms. Unless of course Lt. Col. Joyce was pararescue. Does anyone have a roster they can look up for me?

[Tonomachi]

There is a rare book (out of print and very hard to fine) on PJ's in Vietnam; you might try cross referencing the name just to be sure. Would be neat if he had been one; my grandfather flew missions out of Phu Cat with Det. 13 38th ARRS. As they say 'That others may live'.

Many thanks for this information. Does anyone own this book?

[patches]

Well in this portrait when in the new Air Force, he's wearing the USAAF Aerial Gunner Wings, so yes that's where the Air Crew Wings come in, this was the standard wing worn for air crewmen after a point superseding if you will the Aerial Gunner Wings within the Air Force, some even doing so during late WWII period. And since he's not wearing Jump Wings at this time, he clearly went through the school at a later date

 

[patches]

He's in the 1969 Air Force registry as of 1 January 1969 as a Major, so chances are the tropical coat was worn when he was a LT Col, a little laterthen 1969, perhaps 1971? I think the white edge on the Black Oak Leaf indicated in the Vietnam era subdued Black insignia leafs, Yellow Edge as a Major. Cant link registry for some reason , nor can I grab a Screenshot of his listing. Unlike the Army Officer Registry which lists Branch, the Air Force one does not list this.

[Tonomachi]

Well in this portrait when in the new Air Force, he's wearing the USAAF Aerial Gunner Wings, so yes that's where the Air Crew Wings come in, this was the standard wing worn for air crewmen after a point superseding if you will the Aerial Gunner Wings within the Air Force, some even doing so during late WWII period. And since he's not wearing Jump Wings at this time, he clearly went through the school at a later date

 

Thanks for pointing this out so he went through jump school and obtained a commission probably in the Air Force.

[Tonomachi]

He's in the 1969 Air Force registry as of 1 January 1969 as a Major, so chances are the tropical coat was worn when he was a Major, the white edge on the Black Oak Leaf indicated in the Vietnam era subdued Black insignia leafs as a Major. Cant link registry for some reason , nor can I grab a Screenshot of his listing. Unlike the Army Officer Registry which lists Branch, the Air Force one does not list this.

Thanks for the additional information. I thought outline white was Lt. Col. and outline yellow was Major?

[patches]

Too bad the old Vietnam Veteran Database is no longer online, here they did likst MOS for Air Force Officers.

[patches]

Thanks for pointing this out so he went through jump school and obtained a commission probably in the Air Force.

No, from what we see he was not jump qualified, this photo has to be taken circa 1950 as per his registry commission period, he is wearing the U.S. Army Air Corps Aerial Gunners Wings, as a permanent qualification badge which was allowed, many form EMs in the Air Force of the 50s-60s from WWII even those in the Army (they not re uping in the new Air Force but staying for some reason in the Army) switched to the standard Air Crew Wings, this being the same one introduced in the WWII period. This Joyce was clearly a Bomber Crewman, an EM, during the war, or at the very least was qualified as a Aerial Gunner, meaning he was trained but didn't fly overseas in combat. He had to have gone through jump school in the 50s or 60s for what ever reason, and for the time being, we'll say that the Air Crewman wings he wears are for his qualification in WWII, not sure what badge was worn by Air Force officers in the 60s, there is an Officer Air Crewman Wings but I'm not certain when these came out, in the 70s?

[gwb123]

He's in the 1969 Air Force registry as of 1 January 1969 as a Major, so chances are the tropical coat was worn when he was a LT Col, a little laterthen 1969, perhaps 1971? I think the white edge on the Black Oak Leaf indicated in the Vietnam era subdued Black insignia leafs, Yellow Edge as a Major.

 

That would be correct. Both uniforms are for a Lieutenant Colonel.

[patches]

 

That would be correct. Both uniforms are for a Lieutenant Colonel.

Thank You gwb, I recall one or more coats posted before with this type of ranks, let me look around.

[riflegreen297]

Maybe he bailed out enough to qualify for jump wings.

[patches]

Found two of them. One a Major the other a Lieutenant Colonel.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/100740-usaf-officers-jungle-jacket/

 

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/157995-vietnam-usaf-special-ops-unit-flight-suits/

[patches]

Could Joyce have been a Combat Controller?

[Longhorn92]

I have the PJ book. Ill look through it and see if his name pops up.

[P-40Warhawk]

I have the PJ book. Ill look through it and see if his name pops up.

 

 

You are very fortunate to have the book. Hopefully his name is in it.

[FlyingTigers03]

Man, this guys' stuff got pretty spread out. I think some of his dress hats and some custom made coveralls are still up on eBay.

[gwb123]

Could Joyce have been a Combat Controller?

 

Without a paper trail, we will not know.

 

As for the jump wings, there could be a dozen reasons why he had them, including the fact that he went through jump school because he had an opportunity and just went for the fun of it.

 

Depending on how he got his commission, it may have been an option at the time.

[Longhorn92]

No Joyce in the PJ book. Sorry.