Siamundo Posted November 3, 2018 Share #1 Posted November 3, 2018 This came in a mixed insignia lot that did include some older USAF Fighter Interceptor & Air Defense Command, and Airlift patches but I am having trouble positively identifying. It is the same motto used by the 4th Fighter Wing but the design is not similar at all. I have tried both usafpatches.com and usmilitarypatches.com but I could not find this on either site. There only site where I did find it was ljmilitaria where it is listed as possibly? being the 4th Fighter Wing. The blue diamond pattern and rampant animal makes me think of Germany but I don't know if the 4th FIW/4th TFW ever spent any time there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamundo Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share #2 Posted November 3, 2018 Backside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake1941 Posted November 3, 2018 Share #3 Posted November 3, 2018 Tactical Fighter Wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamundo Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share #4 Posted November 3, 2018 Thank you wake1941. That is what hoping someone might be able to verify-if this is from the 4th Fighter Group, 4th Fighter Interceptor Wing, or 4th Tactical Fighter Wing. It could possibly be for another outfit all altogether for all I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake1941 Posted November 3, 2018 Share #5 Posted November 3, 2018 I believe the 4th Fighter used the same motto, and Im sure Ive seen this design before as well. Very cool patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted November 4, 2018 Share #6 Posted November 4, 2018 The shield looks like a German town/city coat of arms, maybe Bavaria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamundo Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share #7 Posted November 4, 2018 I agree firefighter, that's what I was thinking as well.It is very similar to Bavaria and has that look of a German state coat of arms. As best I could tell, I could not find any reference for the 4th TFW having being stationed in Europe or Germany. The 38th TRS had a similar background pattern only with green diamonds and they were stationed in Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted November 6, 2018 Share #8 Posted November 6, 2018 This patch has been unidentified for some time. Though it uses the 4th FW motto I still have not seen anything showing it's use with the 4th. The 4th TFW was dual stationed for a time, meaning it deployed to Germany annually during Reforger and other exercises in the 70s and 80s, so it's highly possible it could be related. But it's just as likely to be a school patch or some such as well. Hopefully someone has concrete info on it. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted November 7, 2018 Share #9 Posted November 7, 2018 I don't think this is associated with the 4th TFW. The one thing that stands out is that the 4th's motto is Fourth but First. Note that the 4th is not spelled out. That brings up alarm bells. This looks to me as a ROTC/OTS or a Battalion level patch of some sort. Just gut feeling. -Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST Posted November 7, 2018 Share #10 Posted November 7, 2018 It's very similar to the post-WWII Luftwaffe Leichtes Kampfgeschwader (LeKG) 44 insignia but the lion is facing the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Kraut Posted November 7, 2018 Share #11 Posted November 7, 2018 It reminds indeed of the insignia of German Fighter Bomber Wing 44. which was active from 1965 to 1975. I checked some 44th's history articles I found online. In 1966 LeKG 44 participated in an international NATO Air Forces Recce competition "Royal Flush". LeKG got 4th place, being the best (4th but FIRST) German team. Could be an "after competiton patch" worn on the right sleeve with the griffin forward-facing. Another wild guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearmon Posted November 7, 2018 Share #12 Posted November 7, 2018 It reminds indeed of the insignia of German Fighter Bomber Wing 44. which was active from 1965 to 1975. I checked some 44th's history articles I found online. In 1966 LeKG 44 participated in an international NATO Air Forces Recce competition "Royal Flush". LeKG got 4th place, being the best (4th but FIRST) German team. Could be an "after competiton patch" worn on the right sleeve with the griffin forward-facing. Another wild guess... The only question to that is why is it in English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Kraut Posted November 7, 2018 Share #13 Posted November 7, 2018 The only question to that is why is it in English? English was widely used in the Bundeswehr Luftwaffe from the beginning on. All pilots were trained in the U.S. e.g. Divisions and wings were assigned to NATO Higher Commands etc. LeKG 44 was assigned to 4th ATAF. Royal Flush was a NATO competition...as I said, only a wild guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted November 7, 2018 Share #14 Posted November 7, 2018 It reminds indeed of the insignia of German Fighter Bomber Wing 44. which was active from 1965 to 1975. I checked some 44th's history articles I found online. In 1966 LeKG 44 participated in an international NATO Air Forces Recce competition "Royal Flush". LeKG got 4th place, being the best (4th but FIRST) German team. Could be an "after competiton patch" worn on the right sleeve with the griffin forward-facing. Another wild guess... If this was Luftwaffe, I figured if anybody would have seen this patch before, it would have been you! -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearmon Posted November 7, 2018 Share #15 Posted November 7, 2018 English was widely used in the Bundeswehr Luftwaffe from the beginning on. All pilots were trained in the U.S. e.g. Divisions and wings were assigned to NATO Higher Commands etc. LeKG 44 was assigned to 4th ATAF. Royal Flush was a NATO competition...as I said, only a wild guess. Thanks for the response, it makes sense to me now. Bearmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted November 8, 2018 Share #16 Posted November 8, 2018 The patch appears to be US made too, not a common (though not unheard of) manufacture with earlier LW patches. Though there is a bit of resemblance, I'm also still leaning towards a school patch of some sort. Maybe it was "borrowed" by a school like so many designs. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamundo Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share #17 Posted November 8, 2018 Thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge and expertise. I wondered about the "Fourth" vs "4th" and wondered if that was a significant difference or not. For what's it worth, the patch is somewhat thicker than a 'regular' embroidered patch. It is fully embroidered but it is 'spongier' or thicker than most patches I come across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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