dogface44 Posted December 8, 2008 Share #1 Posted December 8, 2008 A friend of mine was able to purchase this helmet directly from a fisherman who had it stuck in his nets in the Omaha area. Note the leather chinstrap still in place! Since it was found in the Omaha area the liner might well have a patch on it and my friend is torturing his mind as wheteher hes is going to retrieve the liner or not! It would be most interesting to have your advices and if yes, is there a particular way or product to use to get the liner out of the shell without ruining the shell's appearance. Thanks in advance for your help. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvolo Posted December 8, 2008 Share #2 Posted December 8, 2008 Hi dogface44, it's a very cool relic!!!! It's incredible but leather chinstrap remains on the shell. I think will be difficult take away the liner from shell because it is became encrusted . Maybe, you can try to put the helmet in the fresh water for some hours or days. I will like to clean it!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted December 8, 2008 Share #3 Posted December 8, 2008 Since the chin strap appears to be nothing more than a small remaining piece and not the total strap and since I'm a curious sort of guy, I'd have to pull that liner out of the shell. I'd work it very slowly and very methodically but, I'd have to see what was underneath the shell. Please note: This is just what "I" would do, your friend has got to make his decision based on the consequences of a problem occurring during the removal process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted December 8, 2008 Share #4 Posted December 8, 2008 Leave it just as it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
posse Posted December 8, 2008 Share #5 Posted December 8, 2008 Leave it just as it is... I have to agree with Johan... Wouldn't take the risk to mess up this beautiful relic... Just my 2 cents Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted December 8, 2008 Share #6 Posted December 8, 2008 Yes - tell him leave it as is. A barnacle encrusted piece like is unique in its own right, more so than any liner with markings on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted December 8, 2008 Share #7 Posted December 8, 2008 We have had other forum members such as: Yannick, who have pulled apart brittle helmet and liner combinations similar to this, they post the pictures and we then all drool over it and tell them: Nice Job, Good Work, Patience Pays Off, etc. etc. This link shows many such helmets as an example: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...t=0&start=0 Of course others on this forum will feel that it's better to leave it alone. I believe that both types of collectors are correct. Like I said, it's got to be your friends decision, not mine... not theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted December 8, 2008 Share #8 Posted December 8, 2008 I agree it's the owner's decision, but topic starter asked for advice... ( what would we do?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted December 8, 2008 Share #9 Posted December 8, 2008 I agree it's the owner's decision, but topic starter asked for advice... ( what would we do?) No argument here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvage Sailor Posted December 8, 2008 Share #10 Posted December 8, 2008 Aloha Everyone, Of more concern to me would be stabilizing that helmet shell after so many years of immersion in salt water. The corrosion on that shell will rapidly accellerate before your eyes and turn from new rust to tomorrows dust. I've seen this happen many times after salvage ops. The basics: From California Wreck Divers website Metal Unfortunately, naturally occurring electrolysis dramatically effects different metals in salt water. Certain metals react with the salt water causing a galvanic action that will completely dissolve the metal over time. Ferrous Metals: Iron or Steel Preservation of iron and ferrous metal is an extremely difficult and time-consuming operation. All steps must be completed in order protect the artifact from deteriorating from the inside out. During its years of submersion, ferrous metals become porous, allowing saltwater deep into the metal. Some of the metal leaches from the interior, coating the exterior with an inch or two of black, brittle corrosion. The covering can be easily be removed by striking the object with a blunt instrument such as a hammer, often revealing the object in its original form. However, the appearance is deceiving as much of the metal in the body object has been leached out and replaced with salt water. Once the object dries, the salt inside crystalizes and the object will disintegrate from the inside out, leaving behind a pile of orange dust. Prior to preservations, all ferrous metals should be kept wet and not exposed to the air for any length of time. After all foreign matter (rust and conglomerate) has to be removed before treatment can begin. Small objects can be cleaned in an ultrasonic bath. The chemical process begins by immersing the object in a bath consisting of 10 percent nitric acid and 90 percent fresh water. This is followed by several washes in fresh water to remove all alkaline traces. To remove all corrosion and preserve the metal, there are two methods you can use; electrochemical or electrolytic reduction. There ya go..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogface44 Posted December 8, 2008 Author Share #11 Posted December 8, 2008 Thanks - your replies and advices are most appreciated. The goal being also the opportunity to show a nice relic. If it were mine I would leave it as is and I assume that any effort to secure the liner would affect the shells on top and the overall appearence. But of course my friend has it in his hands and would dream to find as BRO or a 29th patch on the liner! I guess water wouldnt help that much. We were thinking of some kind of lubricant or any magic solution some of you may have. The worst of course would be to accidentaly crack the shell crust and ruin the helmet to find a non marked liner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogface44 Posted December 8, 2008 Author Share #12 Posted December 8, 2008 Hi Salvage Sailor thanks! I was posting at the same time so hadnt seen your message. Yes thats another aspect to consider and it must be heartbreaking to manipulate it and see it slowly desintegrate. I had an M43 spade I found on Utah when I was a kid, brought it home and left it in a C ration wooden crate in my collection. A few years after it was dust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffy Posted December 8, 2008 Share #13 Posted December 8, 2008 Awesome catch! I would leave it, as always....in the state it was found in. It's not my helmet at the same time, so it's not my call. I just think it's better safe than sorry! Cheers, Duffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyRed1944 Posted December 8, 2008 Share #14 Posted December 8, 2008 Personally i'd give it a shot.But its a personal desicion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake_E Posted December 9, 2008 Share #15 Posted December 9, 2008 I agree, the hadfield mangaese shells are incredibly durable, but i would be very worried about the liner moreso than anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted December 9, 2008 Share #16 Posted December 9, 2008 That's very cool, I'd leave it has is! Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkdriver Posted December 9, 2008 Share #17 Posted December 9, 2008 My vote, leave it. So what if it has a painted liner, The helmet was probably painted. These are a married pair and it would kill their spirit to seperate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightenIrish35 Posted December 9, 2008 Share #18 Posted December 9, 2008 il be the broken record here..id leave it to,but id sure be curious i wont lie...i think it looks sweet just the way it is...a true relic of battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffy Posted December 9, 2008 Share #19 Posted December 9, 2008 I am pleased to hear that there are several other people on this topic, whom think it should be left alone as well. Cheers to that. Duffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted December 9, 2008 Share #20 Posted December 9, 2008 yup, I would also definately leave it as is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvolo Posted December 9, 2008 Share #21 Posted December 9, 2008 Hi dogface1944; you can try with a chimic product: oxalic acid; you can find it in a specific store (I don't know in USA). I used this product to clean some German relic helmets. You must take the product (it is dust) and dissolve it in a basin with fresh water; you need about four/five spoons of dust in about three liter of water. Keep the helmet in water at least for two days. After rinse out the helmet . Normally if rust is hard you need still a rnew efresching after with the oxilic acid. I show you an example with my german relic with chicken wire remains. This product eliminate rust without damage helmet metal!! Good luck!!! Marvolo The first two pics show the helmet just arrived after cleaning: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvolo Posted December 9, 2008 Share #22 Posted December 9, 2008 44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvolo Posted December 9, 2008 Share #23 Posted December 9, 2008 1011 this the helmet during refresching and final resul at the end. It was a Field German camo Sow Dust!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvolo Posted December 9, 2008 Share #24 Posted December 9, 2008 1017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvolo Posted December 9, 2008 Share #25 Posted December 9, 2008 1024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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