heftaa01 Posted October 25, 2018 Share #1 Posted October 25, 2018 The 55th Brigade of the PA Guard recently switched from the traditional keystone SSI to a new one bearing a rearing horse. I was at aft Indiantown Gap this weekend and was able to secure one of these patches from a current 55th soldier. Of note the patch is significantly larger than the regular division keystone. I asked a few soldiers of the Brigade why they had switched SSI but none could give an answer. One soldier did state that the horse was taken from the old gray mare moniker of the 109th INF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted October 25, 2018 Share #2 Posted October 25, 2018 55th Maneuver Enhancement Bde, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATCHRAT Posted October 25, 2018 Share #3 Posted October 25, 2018 Authorized for the 55th Maneuver Enhancement Brigade (MEB) July 2017 here is a color version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted October 25, 2018 Share #4 Posted October 25, 2018 There are a least 20 new unit patches that have popped u within the last couple years. It really is a bounty crop for patch collectors IF pinks and greens are ultimately approved. Otherwise, they are basically collectors' pieces only. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted October 25, 2018 Share #5 Posted October 25, 2018 They are for RA and NG units, so they are for real and usually inexpensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heftaa01 Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share #6 Posted October 26, 2018 A new article came out with more info on this. https://www.dvidshub.net/news/297560/pa-guard-adds-new-shoulder-sleeve-insignia The new patch features a black horse on a gold keystone shield edged with a blue border, in a slightly larger size than the former Keystone patch. Blue and gold are both the unit and the commonwealth of Pennsylvanias colors. The keystone shape is also indicative of the units assignment in the Pennsylvania National Guards 28th Infantry Division. The black horse is emblematic of the units history as a mounted maneuver brigade as well as signifying strength, agility and loyalty. The patchs colors are subdued as part of the duty uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted October 26, 2018 Share #7 Posted October 26, 2018 They are for RA and NG units, so they are for real and usually inexpensive. Are you referring to the colored patches? If so, how are they real if there is no authorized uniform on which they can be worn? I have yet to see widespread use of garrison patches which would back your statement. -Ski Edit: On thinking back on this, I think you were simply referring to the new designs in ACU/ OCP rather than the colored ones. If so, I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillock Posted October 27, 2018 Share #8 Posted October 27, 2018 The modern era for coloured SSI should be put in context, that units still use them to some degree but are not worn on the Blue's. Coloured SSI are worn for ceremonial and special events on authorized OCP uniform. Who authorizes use will come down to local commanders authorization. TIOH still produces official documentation using colour and stitch counts. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted October 27, 2018 Share #9 Posted October 27, 2018 I understand that, but colored patches are local authorization only and I have yet to see colored patches worn on ACU's for day to day use. It is spotty at best. I believe most of the colored patches made today of new units are made for collectors (or as a hedge bet) rather than on contract. That said, I still actively collect them, but as I have mentioned before, the quality of those patches (particularly from Eagles of War) are lacking in quality compared to the graybacks that were made on contract. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillock Posted October 27, 2018 Share #10 Posted October 27, 2018 Apart from the 50's-60's,when coloured SSI was authorized on garrison or combat uniforms until requirement for subdued became mandatory(68-69?).There is no US Army authorization for coloured SSI to be worn on a day to day basis from BDU onwards apart from local authorization. 75th Ranger Inf.(Abn) 1974-86 was local authorization (mix of colour and subdued) until the 75th Ranger Regt(1986.) were officially authorized coloured SSI scrolls. There are other RA units including NG, that wore coloured SSI again local authorization only. There are 2 types of SSI that one should look at in the current market, those that are made to TIOH specs,US schiffli fully embroidered SSI (as above design approved by TIOH same as contracted orders) and those that are made in Taiwan or else where(cheaper poor quality),that are sold on or around bases that soldiers do use. Back to the coloured 55th EMB, I would ask patchrat if he has a spare(or if you collect modern era US schiffli made to spec) as these are collectible in their own right as when the Army goes to P&G, there might be border coloured changes that could come into effect. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted October 27, 2018 Share #11 Posted October 27, 2018 Apart from the 50's-60's,when coloured SSI was authorized on garrison or combat uniforms until requirement for subdued became mandatory(68-69?).There is no US Army authorization for coloured SSI to be worn on a day to day basis from BDU onwards apart from local authorization. 75th Ranger Inf.(Abn) 1974-86 was local authorization (mix of colour and subdued) until the 75th Ranger Regt(1986.) were officially authorized coloured SSI scrolls. There are other RA units including NG, that wore coloured SSI again local authorization only. There are 2 types of SSI that one should look at in the current market, those that are made to TIOH specs,US schiffli fully embroidered SSI (as above design approved by TIOH same as contracted orders) and those that are made in Taiwan or else where(cheaper poor quality),that are sold on or around bases that soldiers do use. Back to the coloured 55th EMB, I would ask patchrat if he has a spare(or if you collect modern era US schiffli made to spec) as these are collectible in their own right as when the Army goes to P&G, there might be border coloured changes that could come into effect. Phill I think you are missing my point. When the US Army went from the AG service uniform to the blues, colored SSI ceased to be worn, except locally if the base commander authorized it. With few examples (1st ID, 28th ID) most bases stuck with using the ACU patches. What I am saying is that there is a case for the fact that the vast majority of modern SSI's that are being produced, are done for collectors and were not made for issue. If Pinks and Greens return, then we will see colored patches being used as a matter of policy, not as an exception. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillock Posted October 27, 2018 Share #12 Posted October 27, 2018 I think you are missing my point. When the US Army went from the AG service uniform to the blues, colored SSI ceased to be worn, except locally if the base commander authorized it. With few examples (1st ID, 28th ID) most bases stuck with using the ACU patches. What I am saying is that there is a case for the fact that the vast majority of modern SSI's that are being produced, are done for collectors and were not made for issue. If Pinks and Greens return, then we will see colored patches being used as a matter of policy, not as an exception. -Ski No wasn't missing your point , if you read clearly you bamboozled yourself, I merely clarified your statement on use. "so, how are they real if there is no authorized uniform on which they can be worn?" Yes as explanation used for Ceremonial and special events on MC/OCP they are on authorized uniforms. We all know when the Army went from AG to Blues , SSI policy wear and use was rescinded and replaced by CSIB, apart from certain specialist tabs that have been worn on Blues. They have been approved but not issued. As a collector you should know the difference between commercial rubbish, Taiwanese (or any theatre) made used by new units until production can be supplied and of course legit US schiffli made SSI colour or otherwise, Beret Flash and ovals are in the same category. It amplifies more when the US war machine starts to rumble. So all of your SSI, you have kindly furnished, have been approved but not issued,keep a mental note, can be used for ceremonial and special events apart from the proposed SOCPAC that was rejected,but wait I have seen the Grey ACU variant with SF tab used by SF officer on ACU jacket with a group of other individuals! All the ones I see are produced by TIOH sanctioned US schiffli embroidered companies apart from rejected SOCPAC design (made by an ebay seller ). Collecting US SSI has a history of not being authorized but used against policy with and without exception. I want to thank being part of ASMIC and its members, thats why I enjoy this hobby. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted October 27, 2018 Share #13 Posted October 27, 2018 I don't think these patches are actually issued to the units. I think that they are made outside the supply system, offered commercially and do not match the quality of the gray back patches which have higher quality threads and are in the supply system. If you can find a grayback version of any of the patches above, you will find a very distinct difference in production quality, one that I don't think the US Army would purchase. Could you see these on the uniform? Sure, but I bet they were locally purchased from commercial sources. If anybody is currently a procurement officer for a unit, Let me know if this isn't the case. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillock Posted October 27, 2018 Share #14 Posted October 27, 2018 They are not issued to the units for the above reasons, at least that makes sense. Who, how and what units used them, needle in a haystack , commanders might or might not allow them to be used. I seem to recall units within the 1st ID (early OIF?) had used red ones on desert subdued patches but to what level and extent not sure and I believe they were stopped, maybe some one can confirm. If used for ceremonial and special events, one would think either the soldier and or the unit authorizes funds for patches. May be set up a separate thread on modern production pieces to show what you determine as high low quality thread, you may be talking Taiwanese v US made(?) and we can chime in. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted October 28, 2018 Share #15 Posted October 28, 2018 They are not issued to the units for the above reasons, at least that makes sense. Who, how and what units used them, needle in a haystack , commanders might or might not allow them to be used. I seem to recall units within the 1st ID (early OIF?) had used red ones on desert subdued patches but to what level and extent not sure and I believe they were stopped, maybe some one can confirm. If used for ceremonial and special events, one would think either the soldier and or the unit authorizes funds for patches. May be set up a separate thread on modern production pieces to show what you determine as high low quality thread, you may be talking Taiwanese v US made(?) and we can chime in. Phill Ahhh good, we have a common ground. Yeah, I think you are spot on. I think that is a good idea to post pictures. I did post pictures elsewhere of comparisons. I might have to track both versions down, which I do have access to. I think that is a good idea. I know of only one vendor that currently sells new army patches and that is Eagles of War. I am thrilled to be able to get them (and they are very reasonably priced), but they are not of the same quality. The colors are muddy and the cables aren't of the same gauge. I will try to track down both types and post them. I seriously think the only issue patches are the gray backs and I have only seen ones made for units up to maybe 5 years ago. I could very well be wrong, but that is what I see right now. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottG Posted October 31, 2018 Share #16 Posted October 31, 2018 A new article came out with more info on this. https://www.dvidshub.net/news/297560/pa-guard-adds-new-shoulder-sleeve-insignia The new patch features a black horse on a gold keystone shield edged with a blue border, in a slightly larger size than the former Keystone patch. Blue and gold are both the unit and the commonwealth of Pennsylvanias colors. The keystone shape is also indicative of the units assignment in the Pennsylvania National Guards 28th Infantry Division. The black horse is emblematic of the units history as a mounted maneuver brigade as well as signifying strength, agility and loyalty. The patchs colors are subdued as part of the duty uniform. So perhaps this is the answer to this thread I started a couple of years ago: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/260047-what-is-this-28th-id-ssi/ What do you all think? Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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